IDN's dropping like flies

[DNWizardX9]

Originally Posted by Rubber Duck

I think we are in agreement, and things have got tougher as more language tools have become available. Google now does Arabic and Korean which are both fairly recent additions. .

Please clarify that you mean that they allow auto translation from the Korean/Arabic website to english.

People might misrepresent that and have another war stating OH, so these languages are JUST starting to be allowed.

Korean and Arabic searching in google has been supported by google for a long time.

[Rubber Duck]

Originally Posted by DNWizardX9

Please clarify that you mean that they allow auto translation from the Korean/Arabic website to english.

People might misrepresent that and have another war stating OH, so these languages are JUST starting to be allowed.

Korean and Arabic searching in google has been supported by google for a long time.

Yes, it gets very easy to assume everyone knows what you mean. Apologies for that.

There are still some minor languages with their own scripts that cannot be searched on Google. These are mainly the languages for which Unicode representations are not complete. Arabic and Korean are important languages for IDN and these were sorted out years ago, but getting online translation has not been that easy for either of these until comparatively recently.

Google language tools still do not cover important languages such as Hindi, Urdu and Farsi, and surprisingly even Russian, but all these are coming.

Google is, however, supporting Adwords and Search in all the major languages, even including the Indian Languages which have trailed behind for sometime. Much has changed over the last couple of years. I remember when Arabic wasn't indexed either by Yahoo or Google, and we are only talking about 2 years or so. Google, howeve, has clearly identified the need to roll out its service gobally and it taking a local language approach wherever it goes. Obviously, economically significant language are being prioritised, but they are clearly intent on fairly universal coverage.

Firefox supports 36 languages now and I believe IE7 will support fifty plus within the next couple of months. That should keep most speculators busy for a while.

[chording]

This thread is both provocative and entertaining...

Like it or not, IDN has a significant role to play, addressing some fundamental needs of end users. It's all about demand and supply, simple as that.

[bwhhisc]

Originally Posted by chording

Like it or not, IDN has a significant role to play, addressing some fundamental needs of end users. It's all about demand and supply, simple as that.

Its also about functionality and relevance for your search.
IDNs are simply just regular domains in "your" daily use language.

soccer.com in English is what "we" may prefer, here are some soccer (football) foreign equivalent displayed as IDNs.

IDNs are just regular domains, in various languages and still using .com, .net, .jp, .tv, etc.

No mystery here as to what non-English speaking internet users in China, Egypt, Thailand or Korea might prefer for their domains or searches. Not to mention what advertiser$ will be able to do with them.

fútbol.com Spanish "fútbol" 38,300,000 google
футбол.com Russian "футбол" 29,800,000 google
كرةالقدم .com Arabic 1,380,000 google
足球.com Chinese "足球" 62,600,000 google
サッカー .com Japanese "サッカー" 59,700,000 google
축구 .com Korean "축구" 23,400,000 google
ฟุตบสล.com Thai "ฟุตบสล" 605,000 google
soccer.com English "soccer" 177,000,000

[Explorer]

Originally Posted by bwhhisc

Its also about functionality and relevance for your search.
IDNs are simply just regular domains in "your" daily use language.

soccer.com in English is what "we" may prefer, here are some soccer (football) foreign equivalent displayed as IDNs.

IDNs are just regular domains, in various languages and still using .com, .net, .jp, .tv, etc.

No mystery here as to what non-English speaking internet users in China, Egypt, Thailand or Korea might prefer for their domains or searches. Not to mention what advertiser$ will be able to do with them.

fútbol.com Spanish
футбол.com Russian
كرةالقدم .com Arabic
足球.com Chinese
サッカー .com Japanese
축구 .com Korean
ฟุตบสล .com Thai
soccer.com English

Just do add.

Sure, fultol might be easier to write than fútbol, but it's the correct spelling that's critical. For example, words like "4ever" and "thanx" are easier to write, but I doubt you'll find them in "official" print like New York Times or WSJ.

[touchring]

Originally Posted by Explorer

Just do add.

Sure, fultol might be easier to write than fútbol, but it's the correct spelling that's critical. For example, words like "4ever" and "thanx" are easier to write, but I doubt you'll find them in "official" print like New York Times or WSJ.

Well, if you check the chinese version, owned by the snows, that name actually got an alexa, and it's parked at Dopa.

[Explorer]

Originally Posted by touchring

Well, if you check the chinese version, owned by the snows, that name actually got an alexa, and it's parked at Dopa.

I can't even imagine what happens when IE7 in Chinese is released and distributed via Auto Update.

[touchring]

Originally Posted by Explorer

I can't even imagine what happens when IE7 in Chinese is released and distributed via Auto Update.

Umm, no, i think for chinese and japanese or even arabic, it's not just an issue of IE7, the fact that people who didn't know that IDNs were possible, and yet instinctively type in the IDN plus .com is an indication of the traffic of what is to come if IDN were to be established.

I think it doesn't need an experienced domainer to know what that implies.

[Rubber Duck]

Originally Posted by bwhhisc

Its also about functionality and relevance for your search.
IDNs are simply just regular domains in "your" daily use language.

soccer.com in English is what "we" may prefer, here are some soccer (football) foreign equivalent displayed as IDNs.

IDNs are just regular domains, in various languages and still using .com, .net, .jp, .tv, etc.

No mystery here as to what non-English speaking internet users in China, Egypt, Thailand or Korea might prefer for their domains or searches. Not to mention what advertiser$ will be able to do with them.

fútbol.com Spanish "fútbol" 38,300,000 google
футбол.com Russian "футбол" 29,800,000 google
كرةالقدم .com Arabic 1,380,000 google
足球.com Chinese "足球" 62,600,000 google
サッカー .com Japanese "サッカー" 59,700,000 google
축구 .com Korean "축구" 23,400,000 google
ฟุตบสล.com Thai "ฟุตบสล" 605,000 google
soccer.com English "soccer" 177,000,000

Well as Arabic is going to be amongst the first to the Auto Updates tapes, I let you know when it happens. :angel_smile:

[Alphamale]

Is that it? Wow, that was a controversial topic. What's the record for a thread length?

and if we haven't broken it, who here believes in God?

[Rubber Duck]

Originally Posted by Alphamale

Is that it? Wow, that was a controversial topic. What's the record for a thread length?

and if we haven't broken it, who here believes in God?

Perhaps it is time to drag Acroplex back to explain this:

http://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?i...6224956at2.jpg

[Acro]

Explain what, that Chinese traffic pays a fraction of a penny? Or that major PPC companies completely ignore it?

[Rubber Duck]

Originally Posted by Acroplex

Explain what, that Chinese traffic pays a fraction of a penny? Or that major PPC companies completely ignore it?

For you better orientation, the pages your are looking at are in the language of a mystical island archipeligo that lies in uncharted water to the East of China.

[touchring]

Originally Posted by Acroplex

Explain what, that Chinese traffic pays a fraction of a penny? Or that major PPC companies completely ignore it?

It's not that PPC companies ignore it, but PPC pages like Sedo and Namedrive are banned in China. We get round it by using Chinese PPC companies, but these are really quite new in the market.

Of cos, you can't expect USA PPC when one dollar can buy 8 yuan. It's a forex issue.

In terms of the medium term outlook, the USA market has already peaked out with Google (and it's partner Sedo) controlling and slashing payout, whereas, there is still growth potential in the Chinese market, and there's no monopoly in the search engine in China - Baidu has more market share than Google, but Google is also not weak.

[Rubber Duck]

Originally Posted by touchring

It's not that PPC companies ignore it, but PPC pages like Sedo and Namedrive are banned in China. We get round it by using Chinese PPC companies, but these are really quite new in the market.

Of cos, you can't expect USA PPC when one dollar can buy 8 yuan. It's a forex issue.

In terms of the medium term outlook, the USA market has already peaked out with Google (and it's partner Sedo) controlling and slashing payout, whereas, there is still growth potential in the Chinese market, and there's no monopoly in the search engine in China - Baidu has more market share than Google, but Google is also not weak.

Spot on the huge apparent differential between China and the US is largely down to foreign exchange rates. The current imbalances make most current measures of economic activity rather absurb.

If you look at other measure such as Energy Consumption or number of IP addresses, or numbers of computers or mobile phones, a total different picture emerges. Of course it is all down to analysis, which from Acroplexes last statement here is clearly sorely lacking. Perhaps it is permissible for him to pontificate about IDN when he cannot differentiate between Chinese and Japanese, but even the most naive domainer should be able to recognise ccTLD extensions.

Yes, PPC in China at the moment is not the best but your figures are still way low on that one. Asia derived Japanese traffic, however, generally pays much better than US on a click by click basis.

[bwhhisc]

Originally Posted by Rubber Duck

For you better orientation, the pages your are looking at are in the language of a mystical island archipeligo that lies in uncharted water to the East of China.

No, its not Atlantis either...sigh

[Acro]

Originally Posted by Rubber Duck

For you better orientation, the pages your are looking at are in the language of a mystical island archipeligo that lies in uncharted water to the East of China.

The Land of Klingon? That's where all the garbage traffic comes from, in IDN packets :-D

[Rubber Duck]

Originally Posted by Acroplex

The Land of Klingon? That's where all the garbage traffic comes from, in IDN packets :-D

As ever you are talking utter bollocks! Google generally values Japanese Traffic Higher than US. Anyway, I understand that DS are the lastest to be interested in handling Asian IDN traffic.

Look, you are never going to accept it from me. You ASCII guys only take things from the established hierachy. OK Fair Dinkum, take it from this guy:


http://www.articlealley.com/article_97569_1.html

[DomainEngineer]

From DNJournal:

Paul Twomey, the President and CEO of ICANN, said today that rushing to add non-English characters to domain names could literally break the Internet. Twomey said ICANN (who is in charge of the global domain name system) is under a lot of political pressure to quickly make domain names available using local alphabets around the world but that more testing is needed to make sure that can be accomplished while allowing the Internet to continue to work without problems. Domains that use foreign characters (known as International Domain Names) currently use an underlying puny code that consists of standard English characters. If ICANN works the technical issues out (which they are expected to do before the end of 2007), puny codes will not be necessary and a true multi-cultural Internet DNS will emerge. Twomey, a native Australian, made his comments while speaking today in Sydney.

http://dnjournal.com/lowdown.htm

Q: Are they saying that punnycode domains will be obsolete/useless and real language domains will replace them?

[Rubber Duck]

Originally Posted by rickkumar

From DNJournal:

Paul Twomey, the President and CEO of ICANN, said today that rushing to add non-English characters to domain names could literally break the Internet. Twomey said ICANN (who is in charge of the global domain name system) is under a lot of political pressure to quickly make domain names available using local alphabets around the world but that more testing is needed to make sure that can be accomplished while allowing the Internet to continue to work without problems. Domains that use foreign characters (known as International Domain Names) currently use an underlying puny code that consists of standard English characters. If ICANN works the technical issues out (which they are expected to do before the end of 2007), puny codes will not be necessary and a true multi-cultural Internet DNS will emerge. Twomey, a native Australian, made his comments while speaking today in Sydney.

http://dnjournal.com/lowdown.htm

Q: Are they saying that punnycode domains will be obsolete/useless and real language domains will replace them?

No, what they are doing is making excuses for dragging their feet for about the last three years. What they alluding to is that if they do not do their job thoroughly then the same domain typed in to two different geographical locations will end up resolving to two separate sites. They are not suggesting the risk is high but they are insisting that their persistent navel gazing will help to eliminate this risk. Frankly, the best way of ensuring it all works properly would be to simply to hand over the responsibility to Verisign.

He is actually just collecting a fee for delivering a speach that has already been repeated several times.