Purchasing Domain, has "eBay" in it, is it worth it?

**Attila** · 02-18-2009, 10:01 PM

I won't say the domain, so don't ask.

I am purchasing a domain that could very well be the next biggest auction or classifieds website. I am paying a hefty fee for this domain.

While many people have tried to open auction websites, eBay opens their check book and writes a blank check to the best lawyers in the industry.

For instance BidBay.com
Or PerfumeBay.com

I spoke on the phone with the nice (yet poor by almost a million bucks to legal fees) lady who fought eBay over operating a non-auction website. She said its not worth it.

Well, I think it is. I think its worth putting up a fight where common sense exceeds "trademarks" over common words like bay.

The reason I am posting here is because I am looking for advice how to go about launching an legitimate auction website that will verify its sellers a lot better then eBay. Aside from verifying the sellers through several methods, I plan to offer a lot better pricing structure. ON TOP OF ALL THAT, I also plan to implement and offer an internal escrow system ensuring buyers get what they truly receive.

My true goal is to make it a public company, raise lots of money and hire good lawyers who can actually have a chance to win against bullies like eBay. Hasn't any judge heard of anti-monopoly laws? In a form or way, this is what eBay is doing.

So, if you have any suggestions as to:

-Where I should register the company?
USA, Canada, Europe, UK, Hong Kong, BVI ?

-Should I make it a public company?
This refers back to my first question considering I'd like to eventually go public.

-What infrastructure should I make the site?
Does layout make a difference or will eBay still sue cause the site has categories similar to mine. What about moving around sections or implementing features eBay doesn't have? For instance reverse auctions hasn't become popular, but that's just because no one with lots of money introduced it.

-If I launch and host in a different country (malaysia, caymans) can eBay do something legally?
I know speed will be an issue, however if I downsize all pictures and make it craigslist type with CSS and tables, it wouldn't matter.

-If I ignore their C&D letters, can eBay take my domain considering its and .com and ICANN board of directors don't really seem to be fair in cases like these.

-If I am not a USA citizen, and they file a suit against in me in USA, will I be required to respond?

-If they file a suit in my country of citizenship (Canada) will they be able to have better loop holes in Canada or would it be better to keep the suit in USA?

Anyways, thanks for your opinions. Please keep your replies related to topic rather then replying "your crazy!!!"

-Steven

**gooster** · 02-19-2009, 03:10 AM

You can still start an auction site, just choose a different name. eBay doesn't mean anything in itself and it is extremely popular. If you offer a better product, no matter the name, people will come.

**copper** · 02-19-2009, 05:33 AM

I agree with "gooster".
Google, Yahoo, eBay...
They are all branded name.
If your service is good, people will use it.

Why start company with problem (eBay) when you can start clean?
If you want name with keyword, try names that contain bid, auction...

**Carter** · 02-19-2009, 05:43 AM

Originally Posted by copper

I agree with "gooster".
Google, Yahoo, eBay...
They are all branded name.
If your service is good, people will use it.

Why start company with problem (eBay) when you can start clean?
If you want name with keyword, try names that contain bid, auction...

Agree.
Stay away from TM domains if you want invest money in a new brand.
Originality and ideas first.

**fab** · 02-19-2009, 05:46 AM

I third that. Not only TM, but EBay are very agressive at any domains they determine to be offensive.

A good site will make it with proper marketing, without any great domain name.

**Ilze** · 02-19-2009, 05:51 PM

expect a c and d letter. I once registered cbay.ca and got a c and d letter before the ink was dry on the reg forms.

**Attila** · 02-25-2009, 08:25 AM

According to some research and open communication with ICANN and WIPO. eBay can't really take the domain away.

http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/search/

Search their previous cases. Clearly the ones eBay "won" are all eBay domains like eebay.com or gayebay.com type names.

The domain I have is freebay.com

Yes, FREE BAY, not Fre eBay. We're not french and don't expect to be french anytime soon.

I am sure eBay's lawyers will make a judge somewhere in the US to see eBay's view on how I, the owner who eats french bread periodically whose true purpose of buying the domain was to violate eBay's trademark because I eat french bread and pronounce my own domain as Fre eBay. RIGHT, WHAT WORLD ARE WE LIVING IN?

Then again, eBay won't sue unless I launch the website in auction, classifieds, product or profit making form which may consider to be competitive against eBay. A little disclaimer on the top of the page that says "Welcome to Free Bay, We're Free Bay and we are not sponsored by or affiliated with eBay"

I am in communication with several lawyers all around the world to find a good way to launch this amazing new website. Since 2002 it has been my dream to own this domain and make a combination of Auction - Classifieds - Services all in one type website.

You guys think I am still nuts, don't you?

Who, what, when or where will realize what eBay is doing to companies around the world who try operating under the word "bay"

They're acting like school yard bullies just in the corporate world violating tons of anti-trust(monopoly) laws writing blank checks to lawyers demanding to sue anyone and everyone in the "bay" business.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_..._antitrust_law
United States antitrust law is the body of laws that prohibits anti-competitive behavior (monopoly) and unfair business practices. Antitrust laws are designed to encourage competition in the marketplace. [1] These competition laws make illegal certain practices deemed to hurt businesses or consumers or both, or generally to violate standards of ethical behavior.

Has anybody ever been sued by eBay every bring up antitrust during a hearing? For instance PerfumeBay.com who didn't even run auction websites? Just la la la minding their own business and you are sued because you are using the word BAY!!!

Anyone have suggestions or opinions other then "get a new name"

Maybe a petition? Maybe some resourceful information?

**EGS** · 02-25-2009, 11:14 AM

The thing with your domain is that it has the word "eBay" in it...it has a TM issue just by having ebay in it... >_>;

If it was just bay you could get away with it...not sure how lucky you'll be with this one.

**Onward** · 02-25-2009, 12:20 PM

I would not even think about it...Way too much head ache and not really even a good name otherwise unless you were planning on having people believe it was a "Free Ebay".

Would you also want to start a friendly search engine Called "Amigo ogle" or amigoogle.com? Why not 'ogle' is a dictionary word.

**Justin Hulsey** · 02-25-2009, 01:57 PM

I don't really have any helpful information for you.. just want to say that you have some big kahunas. Best of luck with this site brother!

**Dorkside** · 02-25-2009, 02:15 PM

With the word "free" in the domain, I don't think you could charge for listings. Maybe you could be profitable without fees, but I would reconsider the domain. It doesn't seem worth the potential legal headaches it could cause down the road.

**Domn** · 02-26-2009, 05:46 AM

First of all i agree with the previous ppl that said don't go that road.

It's not the issue if you're legally entitled to register and OPERATE a name that contains a "bay" suffix
You don't care about ebay at all

Just think a bit about simple users from their point of view if they see a free-bay auction site
What will come first to their mind ?
...ebay

You practically advertise ebay
It's better to get a totally weird non related name than fight with someone that will not loose anything even if you win.

**Setatimaier** · 02-27-2009, 12:22 AM

Agree! You won't be differentiating too much by doing this. Build your own brand/site and work your way up. It's good to know who your competitors are eBay etc but you have to have an edge against them. Start small, work hard on your site. Goodluck! It will grow..people will flow..

**H2FC** · 02-27-2009, 10:05 AM

FreeBay.com could prove to be a gold mine site if developed and advertised properly. It will take a lot of know-how and money. I wish you well with it.....

BTW, how did you come to find this name in the first place? Was it advertised for sale somewhere or did you just think of it and contact the owner?

**Gerry** · 02-27-2009, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by eglobal84

According to some research and open communication with ICANN and WIPO. eBay can't really take the domain away.

eBay thinks they own the alphabet so do expect a C&D.

This message brought to you by someone who fought ebay twice and won.

Also, very well documented and talked about case involving a perfume company/seller.

It has been awhile, but I think John Berryhill handled (or has intimate knowledge) of this case.

**tekz999** · 02-27-2009, 09:49 PM

Hell no. Unless you want the giant gorilla to slam dunk on your head.

**Raider** · 02-28-2009, 12:27 AM

I remember a domain much like what you describe, the first word ended with a "E", with "BAY" as the second word, Ebay went after it and won the wipo case

If I can remember or find the domain, I'll post it for you.

Nice name but your asking for trouble, Why dump money and time into a domain you could potentially lose?.. Your also going to spend a bankroll trying to defend it when Ebay comes knocking on your door.

**David.** · 02-28-2009, 08:25 AM

Steven, I'm in the same situation as you so I hope you don't mind me posting my dilemma in this thread.

I want to create an auction site for people who are getting a divorce or just got through their divorce. This site would allow people to sell items which they got in the settlement but don't really need.

So I regged DivorceBay(.)com.

I understand people can sell items from a divorce on ebay but my site would be different because 100% of the items there would come from a divorce.

In addition, people coming to this site would already know what they are in for. Most of the things people end up in a divorce are expensive things so this would drastically cut down on the junk people sell on ebay.

There is already a website which sells jewelry (among other items) that people received from their ex-boyfriends and ex-girlfriends, so there is a niche for everything.

Now I am not sure if I should start developing this site because members are saying ebay will send me a c&d letter. My situation is different from yours because my domain wouldn't advertise for ebay.

I don't think if people heard, “Go to Divorce Bay dot com” they would automatically think of ebay.

I'm having a hard time understanding how ebay can sue anyone who has the letters “ebay” next to each other even when there are two different words.

Does Microsoft sue people who own Microscars or SoftPillows dot coms?

Just like you Steven I'd like more advice on what I should do because people are saying different things:

Don't develop it because you will get a c&d letter
Develop it, it's a a gold mine
Others are saying they fought ebay and won

Any advice on my situation?

-David

PS. Here is an article called "Does eBay own the Word Bay?" which doesn't really say much.
http://www.allbusiness.com/specialty...4554447-1.html

And here is an update on the Perfume Bay situation:
http://www.makesnoscents.com/

**Gerry** · 02-28-2009, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by David.

Steven, I'm in the same situation as you so I hope you don't mind me posting my dilemma in this thread.

Your situation may be very similar to the PerfumeBay.com ordeal.

And it would be great advice to read it carefully.

Using the word BAY at the end seems to have been the sticking point in that eBay has made this case before - Bay as a sales place exists because of eBay.

My situation was different with the words MaineBays and OfTheBay.

Their contention was that these names were infringement.

These were planned kayaking and wildlife sites on a trip my wife and I was going to take along the coast of Maine on up to Nova Scotia.

To make a long story short, I went head to head with eBay's legal department.

And won.

The difference is perhaps there is a "disconnect" between my words and they do stand on their own and are recognized as such.

Not that this was a court case but could have easily turned into one.

My argument was that eBay does not own the alphabet and does not own the rights to every word or word combination resulting in E-B-A-Y.

Ebay consented to allowing me to keep the names but cautioned me against selling them or creating a site.

Yeah, right.

The only reason there is not a site is because we postponed that trip and got side tracked to Italy.

But rest assured, this trip is still a must do and you can damn well bet when I start getting pictures of puffins, whales, gorgeous bay communities it will be on!

**Onward** · 02-28-2009, 09:31 AM

I think the main issue here is using the term "ebay" or "bay" (at the end) for auction, classifieds, and sales services. I am tying to understand why anyone would want to use the term "bay" at the end (for those purposes) unless they wanted to let people know that it was an site similar to ebay.

Why not go for something more generic or build your own brand with no piggy backs from other brands.

In both cases, I think it comes down to use...and I think if you go outside of auction services...you may avoid the problems....but It really is shocking to see DocCom's examples...Ebay seems to be way off base in his case...and that is why he won.