Selling domains - the money part

[draggar]

(I'm posting this as a site member and hobby domainer).

Everyone talks about telling people how the domain will help them, what it means (or can mean), search volume, traffic, etc. but there is one aspect that can kill any sale -

The money part.

There are many little habits that people do (here and other places - buyers and sellers) that irk me, and I'm sure many others mainly because they mis-use terms.

The most commonly misused term is BIN. BIN stands for Buy It Now. When eBay coined this phrase (who knows how long ago) it was meant as a fast way to bypass an auction and to purchase an item at a set price.

The BIN offer is voided after the first bid / offer is placed (seriously, how fair is it to the other bidders if you been the bin and when bidding gets close to it someone posts "SOLD AT BIN!!"). Once you have an opening bid or offer, the BIN should be no longer considered by anyone.

A BIN is NOT a fixed price nor is it where you'll start accepting offers. If you say you're taking offers and will only accept offers that are at your "BIN" then either make it a firm (or fixed) price or say "starting offers at $xxx.

A BIN is a certain dollar amount where the seller will, without question or hesitation (other than an untrustworthy buyer) sell the domain on the spot.

Yes, a BIN is a gamble for the buyer and seller. The seller hopes to get the BIN but that is gone when the first bid is placed. The bidders reject the BIN by placing an offer (lower than the bin) in hopes to get it at less than BIN. The tides turn if the bidding goes over the BIN (which I've seen a few times).

Reserve pricing. Nothing annoys me more than to see auctions going on with bids starting at $10 but a $5,000 secret reserve. If I don't think it is worth $5,000 then it is a waste of my time (and don't give me the "well, it tells me how valuable the domain is" - if you wanted an appraisal, then ask for one, don't taunt other people with it). Make your starting offer the reserve or if you want to take a risk, make it lower.

Appraisals. Guess what? Not only do appraisals mean very little to resellers (who would be 99% of the people reading this) - with few exceptions they're not reliable. I don't care if CzAPDO stands for the "Czech Association of Pet Dog Owners" and it's a big organization - it's a reg fee name to me. If it's that valuable - sell it to that association.

Also appraisals can vary from entity to entity. I've seen domains appraised from $25 to $10,000 for the same name. That's a big gap - where do you put your price? Most people here would already have a set price in their mind if they're interested in your domain - they don't care too much that Bob over at Bob's Appraising service said it's worth $15,000 - they mainly wanted your $50 for the fee. The true value of a domain is based on what someone would pay for it in the real world. Sadly, there is no blue book for domains (for the most part).

Many people like to post "Recent Related Sales". Sure, this is good if bluecars.com sold for $15,000 and you are selling redcars.com but I've seen some people put up some rather unrelated "recent related sales".

For example, they'll say "FloridaBeachFrontHomes.com sold for $5,000 and CaliforniaBeachFrontHomes.com sold for $4,500 so my NorthDakotaBeachFrontHomes.com should easily sell for $4,500!". News flash - North Dakota isn't known for it's beaches like Florida and California (Yes, there may be some lalkefront properties in North Dakota that are very nice - don't go nitpicking with me ).

Sniping. Yes, there are snipers out there (I've been guilty from time to time on eBay and some other "fun" sites). Sellers can't complain if they do not put in an anti-sniping rule in effect (any bid within the last 5 minutes will either add 5 minutes to the end time or change the end time to 5 minutes afte rthe last bid). Anti-sniping rules are only for auctions - "doman will be sold 24 hours after the last bid" is not (IMO) an anti-sniping clause.

"Low Balling". Sorry sellers, but isn't this the point of buyers? Get great domains at better prices? If you don't post "taking offers from $$$" (or something similar) don't accuse somoene of being a low-baller when they offer you $50 for a domain you paid $10,000 for 6 months ago. An easy way to avoid people offering you far less than what you want for the domain, post a minimum offer. It's simple and doesn't take that many keystrokes.

Payments and pushing. Another thing that irks me is when someone buys a domain (or anything for that matter) then doesn't pay. Yes, mistakes happen, people get busy which is fine but try to communicate. "I sent your payment - please send me the auth code". "My registrar account is having some issues - give me a few days to get it sorted out and then I'll push the domain" etc..

Also, don't become obsessive with a sale. PM someone, send them an email, call them and leave a voice mail but wait a few days for them to respond. Don't repeat every hour to annoy the hell out of them.

Also, please always remember to be polite and professional. If you're posting in an open forum, many other potential clients are reading it. Even if a sale didn't go over smoothly, you still dealt with a client and a potential future / repeat client.

[justinXcore!]

Well said, Ed!

[kabir1008]

I agree

thanks for posting

[barrylange]

Very valuable information for new domainers and seasoned vets. Thanks draggar! Especially the part about low-balling offers. They asked for "my" best offer, not "their" best offer

[BidNo]

Good stuff

(from the "Newbie Welcome Committee", )

[draggar]

Originally Posted by barrylange

Especially the part about low-balling offers. They asked for "my" best offer, not "their" best offer

Yeah, people tend to think that the value of domains is 99% subjective. I have a domain, 25 letters long that most members here would laugh at someone trying to sell it at reg fee and any would jump at a $30 offer from someone else to buy it.

I wouldn't part with it for over a thousand.

People may say that I am way overvaluing the domain but I use it and it is worth a lot to me.

The opposite is true. A seller may think a domain is worth a lot because they know how it can be used - even if it is not obvious (how much voipphone.com was worth 5-7 years ago?).

Originally Posted by BidNo

Good stuff

(from the "Newbie Welcome Committee", )

I figured being the evil mod might scare away some newbies but don't worry, I'm still evil to the established members.

[GUA]

Very well said.

My biggest nirk with the industry is wannabees.
This is a difficult one to explain as I once was a wannabee.. when I started in domaining I had nothing.. I bought and sold crap, and I was extremely naive at times.

Now I have a solid portfolio worth $xx,xxx by even the most stringent of domain appraisers BUT I still have a LOT of crap.

Soon i will put it on sale again hoping that my crap is someone elses gold. I want rid.. I want to recoup my costs so I can get money to buy good names. Simple as.

Problem is statistically very few succeed in any business, especially this one. Some would say I got lucky, I would say I was clever.

What I dont like is the fact that 99.9% of the posts on this forum (including some of my own) are selling complete crap.. which simply put any decent domainer would not want. Everyone deserves a chance and all that, but rather than having an exclusive sales forum (which also seems to be filling with crap), we should have the normal forum which only contains good domains, and then a special forum for shit... NOT the other way around.

Unrealistic sellers (me included) annoy the hell out of me also.

[adomainstar]

Thank draggar for this valuable information, especially for a newbie like me

[biggedon]

Originally Posted by draggar

The most commonly misused term is BIN. BIN stands for Buy It Now. When eBay coined this phrase (who knows how long ago) it was meant as a fast way to bypass an auction and to purchase an item at a set price.

The BIN offer is voided after the first bid / offer is placed (seriously, how fair is it to the other bidders if you been the bin and when bidding gets close to it someone posts "SOLD AT BIN!!"). Once you have an opening bid or offer, the BIN should be no longer considered by anyone.

A BIN is NOT a fixed price nor is it where you'll start accepting offers. If you say you're taking offers and will only accept offers that are at your "BIN" then either make it a firm (or fixed) price or say "starting offers at $xxx.

A BIN is a certain dollar amount where the seller will, without question or hesitation (other than an untrustworthy buyer) sell the domain on the spot.

Yes, a BIN is a gamble for the buyer and seller. The seller hopes to get the BIN but that is gone when the first bid is placed. The bidders reject the BIN by placing an offer (lower than the bin) in hopes to get it at less than BIN. The tides turn if the bidding goes over the BIN (which I've seen a few times).

if i may...

unless you're still refering to ebay, then as it applies to forum sales...

Your statement "misleads and makes an assumption" of the part for the seller.

A BIN means buy it now, and it "stays in effect" even if others make offers in the thread.

An additional offer from other members that is lower than the BIN, does not render the BIN "null and void" automatically.

It is up to the seller to either retain, reduce or remove the BIN at his/her discretion if it is posted in the thread.


The BIN can also be the "fixed price" if someone wants to "buy it now",when the sale is initially posted.

also, i don't see how offers could exceed the BIN, unless the "buy it now
price was removed after offers were submitted

imo...

[MAllie]

Originally Posted by draggar

Yeah, people tend to think that the value of domains is 99% subjective. I have a domain, 25 letters long that most members here would laugh at someone trying to sell it at reg fee and any would jump at a $30 offer from someone else to buy it.

I wouldn't part with it for over a thousand.

I know that no one else would rate most of my domain names, but I don't rate many that seem to be rated by others. Take some of those lists posted on here by helpful domainers - I just can't see the names as being as good as the comments on them imply. I'm also getting email lists sent every day saying that the first to claim a domain at X amount gets it, as if we were in a goldrush or something. I gaze at these lists, wondering who would want to buy those names at this (or any) price.

So of course it's subjective, but then the subjectivity of an experienced domainer must be worth more than the subjectivity of someone like me, who doesn't know what's good in domaining terms, but only what she likes. Still, I don't want to spend my money on what someone else sees as good unless I can see it for myself also. I suppose it's that lone, defiant spirit of enterprise in some of us - we'd rather fail on our own terms than succeed on someone else's. But perhaps it's no harm. It's claimed that the road behind all successful businesses is littered with early failures. I think I'm living up to this.