What is an end-user and are there any on this forum?

[biggedon]

i'll answer the question in reverse.

a. Yes, there are end-users on this forum.

b. An end-user is a person who takes a domain from registration, (or the reseller market) and develops that domain into a viable website.



just wanted to post that because i see a lot of back and forth conversation about "end-users" and i think some may not know what an end-user is.

most see the end-user as this imaginary person, who has this big truckload of cash....just waiting for a domainer to come and sell them a name.

so let it be known that yes, there are end-users on this forum and that yes, i have sold them some domains.

how do i know they were end-users?

because their websites are still up and the domain is no longer circulating among you resellers!




imo...

[Acro]

An end-user does not go to forums to buy domains. They run a business or have a company and they want to brand a product - it so happens that Joe Domainer has registered the .com

End-users rarely lowball intentionally and are eager to be educated about the mechanics of the domain industry as it applies to web development and SEO. There is a specific method of dealing with end-users; they need to be reassured that domains are not smoke and mirrors. A lot of times one needs to engage in phone conversations with an end-user in order to kick a sale into orbit.

Some end-users are savvy with domains but rarely do they actively pursuit domaining as a hobby; they might assist others in getting what they need but they play by the rules of the industry: if the price is right, they buy.

If it weren't for end-users we'd be selling domains to each other the way we did as kids with stamps, sports cards and comic books.

[INFORG]

I see this topic kicked around a lot. It really comes down to semantics.
There are a lot of "end users" on this forum - myself included. There are a much smaller number of people that do not know about domaining or that otherwise belong to the "end user" category.

Let's call this subset "retail buyers". That is really what people are referring to normally when they are talking about end users.

I am an "end user", but I am certainly not a "retail buyer", since I can pass and create something different on another domain without a problem and have more domains than I have time to develop.

A retail buyer already has his/her product/business/idea and is looking for a brandable and efficient way to market it online. They will pay more (the retail price) or closer to it.

Just my .02

[katherine]

When I purchase domains for development (not resale) I am acting in end user capacity.
If I'm buying for flipping/investment etc, I'm a domainer

[Acro]

The difference between habitual end-users and real end-users is a few zeros to the right of the offer price

[biggedon]

The difference between habitual end-users and real end-users is a few zeros to the right of the offer price

an end-user is an end-user, when they offer more than a reseller.

though the point i was trying to make was verified by "sdsinc and 2gajgops".


sure we all would like to get 6 and 7 figures for our domains, but in reality only a small percentage of domainers overall, have ever sold a domain in the 5 figure range, excluding those domains with 4 characters or less.

no doubt there are plenty of domainers who sell names in 4 figure range every day, while the majority manage $$$ or less.

in the end, if i sell a domain at, above or close to my asking price then i'm happy.
don't really care if it's an end-user, reseller, retailer, wholesaler, importer, exporter, local or long-distance, english speaking or foreign language, man or woman, straight or gay,etc, etc, as long as they send the money!


imo...

[Acro]

Don, if you set the bar low that's how high you will jump
If you're saying that people should be content with flipping domains for $25 profit, then that's fine - but then that's like trading Spideman magazines and old coins.

I've had four 5-figure sales so far, because I don't set the bar low. Because when the offers came in I was not content with simply making a profit. And that's the kind of end-user buyers I'm talking about.

[Gerry]

Since I have personally read...

a member since 2006 ask, "what is a gTLD?"

a member since 2007 who had posted 14 times ask for appraisals on celebrity domain names,

and a member since Jul 2008 proclaim he wants to be in the porno industry, gives his seal of approval to reg a celebrity name, and today *****ed about the funds (or lack thereof) his porno empire domains are earning...


If there are people like this on this forum who will not even take the time to learn the absolute basics of this industry but instead want to jump in head first and expect to make kazillions of dollars...

if there are people like this 3 year whiz kid member on down to the JohnnyWadHolmes wannabee,

why would I waste the time to define what an end user is.

[wussadotcom]

End Users are usually richer and more generous than most of us the members of the reseller team

[biggedon]

Don, if you set the bar low that's how high you will jump
If you're saying that people should be content with flipping domains for $25 profit, then that's fine - but then that's like trading Spideman magazines and old coins.

I've had four 5-figure sales so far, because I don't set the bar low. Because when the offers came in I was not content with simply making a profit. And that's the kind of end-user buyers I'm talking about.

i didn't set a bar, only defined it as is.

but i started by flipping names for $15 and $25 profit and was happy as hell when i made my first sale.

what an individual domainer feels comfortable as his/her profit margin is their perogative.

however, that profit margins' growth, is dictated by the value of the domain and the owners knowledge of domains and their value.


without that knowledge and or experience, they may sell for lower than what another domainer would or could have sold the same name for.
doesn't matter if the client is a reseller or and end-user


i see a lot of posts expressing frustration because they set the bar too high or have expectations above reality.

[katherine]

End Users are usually richer and more generous than most of us the members of the reseller team

If they are the ones making bids on my names at sedo, then I wouldn't say they are so generous

Actually I see quite a few that need to be educated on the value of domain names ie they offer $60 for a domain that you have held (and renewed) for more than 5 years, basically they are asking that you sell a great domain at a loss, you refuse and they still don't get it

[wussadotcom]

Just counter offer with what you think is the value

[Carter]

Selling a domain/month for $5000 or selling 100 domains for $50 each...the most important thing is sell, always.

[mediawizard]

8 times out of 10, an end user will approach you if they have an interest in the name. Whats the percentage on the forum of people approaching you for domains that are not listed for sale?

Forum sales are about selling to other domainers. I dont want to sell a domain for $100 to an end user and then spend 2 days trying to explain what a domain transfer it and how it will be 'delivered' to them.

I sell on the forum for a. instant transactions b. ease of sale for more than one name aka bulk sales c. fast liquidity at extremely low prices so that other resellers/domainers get a good ROI. Dont see where the two markets even coincide except for maybe 0.01% of the forum sales.

And since you closed the other thread I'll reply here:

the other point that was made in this thread, was to accept offers rather than putting a price.

Even marketplaces like Afternic do better with listed prices, however, those listed prices need to cover 20% commission with a min. of $120 per domain, so I wont obviously be listing domains there with the same prices as here.

And if selling in bulk on the forum for the benefit of other domainers is going to harm future end user sales, guess whats going to stop?

I've lost one $x,xxx sale and one $xxx sale because the persons who I was selling the domain to found it listed for $xx - $xxx in a forum sale. So I'm wary, your mileage might differ.

[Gerry]

I spoke with an end user yesterday.

WOW! What an education process.

SEO, metatagging, 5 letters vs their 28, redirecting, URL forwarding, keywords, rankings, permissions, Hosting, DNS, com vs org - This was a local end user. Totally clueless except to know that they wanted a website but knew nothing else. Called via number listed in WHOIS.

Thursday - Enduser called (again via number in WHOIS) from Denver. A knowledgeable bunch, knew all the ins and outs of sites, domains, etc. Admitted they should have gotten the LLLL for their site to redirect to main site (over 30 letters).

Knowing the basics of site design, SEO, and such suddenly has an added value.

The first enduser - they knew nothing about sites and domaining. They only knew in order to have a site they needed a domain and a host. He had been reading up on it and I could tell he was writting things down for a committee meeting this Tuesday. I told him I would make it easier on them by simply being available to answer any questions on Tuesday via telephone.

The Second instance - these geeks clearly knew more about sites and programming than I did but I was able to speak intelligently regarding the value of an LLLL of their sites initials, their redirecting - keyword - and meta-tagging plans. And, they had no clue to domain transfer and ownership. I attempted to explain transfer but ended up saying I will handle all of that for them.

A couple of points to make:

- Screw Domain Privacy! Having accurate information in WHOIS is critical and crucial.
- Learn Basic Skills or even the verbiage (lingo) so you can sound and communicate somewhat intelligently. The first instance I had to dummy down my knowledge and in the second instance - I am sure He had to dummy down his knowledge!
- Get The Contact's Information to follow up and give a Thank You email.

The first instance is a done deal as I will be assisting with the site and given administrative privileges. Nothing big and nothing major but this Director of the organization wants my involvement. And they are going with both the .org with the .com redirecting to it.

I am not sure about the second instance. 50/50 at this point.

I can not stress enough that your contact information MUST be accurate and true. I used to put bogus phone numbers in WHOIS info. I can not imagine all the potential business lost due to non-working numbers.

[copper]

Great informative post!

I would like to add...
Find out as much as possible about buyer.

As for enduser, I think there are two different types of endusers.

1. Typical enduser - You can expect highest selling price.

2. Domainer enduser - This is domainer who is going to develop the site.
As far as selling price is concerned, I don't see much higher price than
reseller price. Just little higher.

I spoke with an end user yesterday.

WOW! What an education process.

SEO, metatagging, 5 letters vs their 28, redirecting, URL forwarding, keywords, rankings, permissions, Hosting, DNS, com vs org - This was a local end user. Totally clueless except to know that they wanted a website but knew nothing else. Called via number listed in WHOIS.

Thursday - Enduser called (again via number in WHOIS) from Denver. A knowledgeable bunch, knew all the ins and outs of sites, domains, etc. Admitted they should have gotten the LLLL for their site to redirect to main site (over 30 letters).

Knowing the basics of site design, SEO, and such suddenly has an added value.

The first enduser - they knew nothing about sites and domaining. They only knew in order to have a site they needed a domain and a host. He had been reading up on it and I could tell he was writting things down for a committee meeting this Tuesday. I told him I would make it easier on them by simply being available to answer any questions on Tuesday via telephone.

The Second instance - these geeks clearly knew more about sites and programming than I did but I was able to speak intelligently regarding the value of an LLLL of their sites initials, their redirecting - keyword - and meta-tagging plans. And, they had no clue to domain transfer and ownership. I attempted to explain transfer but ended up saying I will handle all of that for them.

A couple of points to make:

- Screw Domain Privacy! Having accurate information in WHOIS is critical and crucial.
- Learn Basic Skills or even the verbiage (lingo) so you can sound and communicate somewhat intelligently. The first instance I had to dummy down my knowledge and in the second instance - I am sure He had to dummy down his knowledge!
- Get The Contact's Information to follow up and give a Thank You email.

The first instance is a done deal as I will be assisting with the site and given administrative privileges. Nothing big and nothing major but this Director of the organization wants my involvement. And they are going with both the .org with the .com redirecting to it.

I am not sure about the second instance. 50/50 at this point.

I can not stress enough that your contact information MUST be accurate and true. I used to put bogus phone numbers in WHOIS info. I can not imagine all the potential business lost due to non-working numbers.

[Gerry]

Great informative post!

I would like to add...
Find out as much as possible about buyer.

As for enduser, I think there are two different types of endusers.

1. Typical enduser - You can expect highest selling price.

2. Domainer enduser - This is domainer who is going to develop the site.
As far as selling price is concerned, I don't see much higher price than
reseller price. Just little higher.

I found out the first instance (Saturday's call) was actually at the recommendation of my wife. How about that!

It is not a huge sale. But it comes from internal meetings at Wake Forest University/Bowman Grey School of Medicine. This is 900+ bed teaching hospital with more than 20,000 employees. Its all about connecting and getting connected. Just by adding that they want my involvement in the project and will grant me administrative purposes. I am sure I will have to sign a NDA. I also feel that this will lead to other projects.

So add "using siblings and spouse for sales reps".

Plus, you will also find that a great deal of IT people know every thing there is to know about IT, Secure Networks, Setting up the Internet/Intranet, etc but know very little (if anything at all) about domains and domaining and SEO.

I also want to point something out. Even though I have only recently started using Wordpress, the seemingly major question that the Director had was:

Once the site is made, can certain people be granted access to the site? Can there be multiple editors and contributors? How? And how hard will it be for myself (Director) and others to learn and use?

My answer was doing the site in Wordpress was perhaps the easiest to learn and use for everyone. And, I mentioned, I would not at all be surprised when they have their meeting Tuesday that some committee members will know of or perhaps use wordpress.

[mediawizard]

Doc Com - how many end users have you sold to on the forum?

[Gerry]

Doc Com - how many end users have you sold to on the forum?

I am not sure.

I do know of one member who used one of my LLLL to make an URL shorting site but this was years ago.

It would all depend on how many members have purchased one of my domain names and actually made a site.

Perhaps they will come forward.

I have purchased many on the forum with "intentions" of making a site. But now it appears my studies are going to further delay my plans to make sites.

As for sites I have made from purchases (I consider myself the end user) I am also not sure of that number.

The domain in my siggy was a purchase on here and I have every intention of making a Generic Drug site. Generic vs. Brand drug prices are enormous. Knowing what the generic equivalent is when going to a doctor or pharmacist can save hundreds of dollars in prescriptions. Most likely I would do this site in a mobile format even though it is a .com.

[biggedon]

I spoke with an end user yesterday.

WOW! What an education process.

SEO, metatagging, 5 letters vs their 28, redirecting, URL forwarding, keywords, rankings, permissions, Hosting, DNS, com vs org - This was a local end user. Totally clueless except to know that they wanted a website but knew nothing else. Called via number listed in WHOIS.

Thursday - Enduser called (again via number in WHOIS) from Denver. A knowledgeable bunch, knew all the ins and outs of sites, domains, etc. Admitted they should have gotten the LLLL for their site to redirect to main site (over 30 letters).

Knowing the basics of site design, SEO, and such suddenly has an added value.

The first enduser - they knew nothing about sites and domaining. They only knew in order to have a site they needed a domain and a host. He had been reading up on it and I could tell he was writting things down for a committee meeting this Tuesday. I told him I would make it easier on them by simply being available to answer any questions on Tuesday via telephone.

The Second instance - these geeks clearly knew more about sites and programming than I did but I was able to speak intelligently regarding the value of an LLLL of their sites initials, their redirecting - keyword - and meta-tagging plans. And, they had no clue to domain transfer and ownership. I attempted to explain transfer but ended up saying I will handle all of that for them.

A couple of points to make:

- Screw Domain Privacy! Having accurate information in WHOIS is critical and crucial.
- Learn Basic Skills or even the verbiage (lingo) so you can sound and communicate somewhat intelligently. The first instance I had to dummy down my knowledge and in the second instance - I am sure He had to dummy down his knowledge!
- Get The Contact's Information to follow up and give a Thank You email.

The first instance is a done deal as I will be assisting with the site and given administrative privileges. Nothing big and nothing major but this Director of the organization wants my involvement. And they are going with both the .org with the .com redirecting to it.

I am not sure about the second instance. 50/50 at this point.

I can not stress enough that your contact information MUST be accurate and true. I used to put bogus phone numbers in WHOIS info. I can not imagine all the potential business lost due to non-working numbers.

congrats on that connection


it could very lead to other business from referrals of those on that committee or from the "circles that each member there travels in".

make sure you are on your p's and q's....doting all i's and crossing all t's.

Doc Com - how many end users have you sold to on the forum?

i know you addressed to Doc but here are a few of sales off the top of my head, that we sold to members who took the domain to development.

shopnames com
domainerpro com
dnbank com
freepokermoney net