TQ and revenue !

**wolfis.com** · 10-31-2008, 04:52 PM

after my revenue is currently again ajusted for the SECOND TIME TODAY and i wondering if someone else noticed in the past several weeks that the revenue gets lower and lower by the week - and on the same time my TQ gets higher as i move more names to parked - what kind of game is going on there ??

should the revenue go up when the TQ is way up and why could it possibly go contantly down even if the TQ goes up .

it seams at parked the ONLY way the revenue goes is down no matter how many domain i move !!

WHY are revenue adjustments done more than ones - earlier today yesterdays revenue went up by a few dollars and now it went down by over 20 dollars - up and down - but the bottom line is always the same - DOWN !

**Focus** · 10-31-2008, 05:32 PM

I'm guessing they adjust the Yahoo and alternative feed click values seperately sometimes depending on when the final numbers come back? I have to say I did see a big swing in my estimates from yesterday in the adjustment today, about a 30% difference down...but there is still a * star next to it so we shall see...

**tonyfloyd** · 10-31-2008, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by wolfis.com

after my revenue is currently again ajusted for the SECOND TIME TODAY and i wondering if someone else noticed in the past several weeks that the revenue gets lower and lower by the week - and on the same time my TQ gets higher as i move more names to parked - what kind of game is going on there ??

should the revenue go up when the TQ is way up and why could it possibly go contantly down even if the TQ goes up .

it seams at parked the ONLY way the revenue goes is down no matter how many domain i move !!

WHY are revenue adjustments done more than ones - earlier today yesterdays revenue went up by a few dollars and now it went down by over 20 dollars - up and down - but the bottom line is always the same - DOWN !

this is something i cant quite understand myself....the higher my TQ score...the lower my rpc's???....makes no sense.....

**vbigdeli** · 10-31-2008, 07:00 PM

mine is always 10 but don't see any difference

**tonyfloyd** · 10-31-2008, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by vbigdeli

mine is always 10 but don't see any difference

so then...what's the benefits of having a TQ of 10??.....i would think that RPC would increase when TQ is a 10...no??

**chois** · 10-31-2008, 09:22 PM

Well, my TQS's been "No Score" for weeks and my revenue's been going down.

To be exact, RPC went down like Tony said.

**jdk** · 10-31-2008, 09:28 PM

How is TQ calculated?

**Focus** · 11-01-2008, 03:00 AM

TQ is so simple = you take the square root of the mass of the universe minus the distance of the earth from the sun and divide it by 3.14 (pi) then you take your total clicks and multiply that times .25 then add 420 then subtract your social security number and there you go! It's a snap.

**Donny Simonton** · 11-01-2008, 10:03 AM

Wolfis - It seems we have this same conversation in PM and publically every few months. I wish you would do one or the other, not both as it would make life much easier.

As I mentioned in the PM, estimates will go up and down throughout the day based on how our system is determining fraud, click bots, and what we think a provider will or will not pay for. Let me give an example, let's say somebody comes to one of your domains and click out 2 times. They then go to some other domain that somebody else owns and clicks 100 times. We not only remove the 100 clicks from that person, but also the 2 from you. This is why your numbers can possibly go down. There are many other examples, this is just the easiest to explain.

If your TQ score is a 10, which is actually (9.5 to 10) then you should get paid more than somebody who has an 9 (8.5 to 9.49). But understand that you are actually pad on the 8.79 and not the 9, but I don't know what the actually score is just the 9.

I told Tony why his RPC is lower on one domain, when he did the "me too" on another forum.

Chris - Sometimes I do think TQ scores are calculated that way. I really do. The biggest thing I have found the higher the RPC the lower the TQ score in most cases.

The biggest change that has happened lately is the economy. People are still clicking, we are seeing some of the best CTR's in months, but the RPC is not where it used to be. We have tried some different formulas internally to try and improve RPC while improving CTR as well. The system is close to behind tested on a portion of our own domains, but we are still probably 2 weeks out before we can start to see any positive or negative results.

Donny

**tonyfloyd** · 11-01-2008, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by donsimon

I The biggest thing I have found the higher the RPC the lower the TQ score in most cases.

see...this is something that just doesnt make any sense...how can that be?

u figure it would be the other way around...isnt the goal to have a high TQ score?...so u can be rewarded for it?

**David G** · 11-01-2008, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by tonyfloyd

see...this is something that just doesnt make any sense...how can that be?

u figure it would be the other way around...isnt the goal to have a high TQ score?...so u can be rewarded for it?

ditto.

**Donny Simonton** · 11-01-2008, 10:27 AM

Think about it this way, the TQ score is calculated based on conversions. Who do you think tracks conversions more? The family business who pays 10 cents a click or the marketing company who is running a car insurance campaign for one of the big 5 car insurance companies and charging over 5 dollars a click?

It's all about the money. So what I have found, the higher the RPC the harder it is to get a high TQ score. It's not hard to get a high TQ score on high priced terms, it's just your traffic has to be very good.

Donny

**tonyfloyd** · 11-01-2008, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by donsimon

So what I have found, the higher the RPC the harder it is to get a high TQ score. It's not hard to get a high TQ score on high priced terms, it's just your traffic has to be very good.

Donny

and if you have both?.....where's the money???..

**Focus** · 11-01-2008, 10:43 AM

Click volume definitely matters as well...I think it's easier for someone with way less clicks to have a higher TQ score imo because I would guess it's maybe higher by default, in your favor...when you get say 1000 clicks per day or something like that you most likely are going to be mid score, and if you have ever actually done real affiliate marketing you know how low conversion rates can be..sometimes like 1% of 1% lol...I would say a 9 or 10 would be really unlikely unless you had all super generic category king domains or stuff like "InsuranceQuote.com". I can tell everyone right now that the economy is having a huge trickle down effect to domain click values.

**Donny Simonton** · 11-01-2008, 12:10 PM

Let me give a little history lesson to try and explain something. When we bought cameras.com the domain was getting over 4000 unique visitors a day. And it was going to a 1 click page, we were getting over 100% CTR and the RPC was over $2.50 a click. We were doing very well.

We had put this domain on it's own so that it would get it's own TQ score, which has been a 10 since day one. So two weeks after we bought the domain the domain was still getting about 4,000 visitors a day, but was making much less. The average RPC was now about $1.50. It was still a 1 click, so we weren't worried about it too much. Another two weeks goes by and now the domain is makin even less, the same number of clicks, but the RPC is now 70 cents a click. So we decided to turn off the 1 click option and switch to a 2 click model, which it still is at today. Once we switched it to a 2 click model the RPC for camera went back up to about $1.00 RPC, which it still is at today normally. But we started seeing RPC on the other terms start dropping as well.

So I made a few calls to some people I know in the camera business. I told them the domain we had bought and they were telling me how great the traffic was and if we wanted to send it directly to them, etc... Then I asked them why was the RPC going down if the conversions were so good. He told me that if they bid $2.50 or $0.30 they were still getting the same high quality traffic so why pay more for it.

At the time cameras.com was the only category killer that was pointing to Yahoo, now I think all of the camera domains are pointing to Yahoo.

So what does this story tell me? That if you send too much traffic to one location, the advertisers may lower the prices, because they can get it for less. I think this is the same thing that is happening right now with the economy being as bad as it is. If you have a domain that sends 100 clicks a day to the same keyword no matter what, and I'm the second advertiser, what happens if I lower my bid 2 cents per click? Do I still get the same amount and same quality traffic? If so, what happens if I lower it 5 cents...

I think I have said it before, we are seeing higher CTR's and more clicks, but less RPC. And this could be part of the reason. Would any of you pay more for something when you could get it for less from the same exact place without any additional work?

Donny

**jdk** · 11-01-2008, 12:13 PM

So do you suggest changing keywords every other day?

**Donny Simonton** · 11-01-2008, 12:22 PM

Definitely not. But if you have a domain or domains that send more than 100 clicks a day to 1 particular keyword, it's something I would recommend looking at every week. But you always need to look at how many advertisers are out there for a particular keyword. The more advertisers you have the better. Also let's say you have a lot of adult traffic, I really wouldn't worry about it because it won't fluctuate in price much at all. If you have a lot of low price traffic, it won't change much either.

Donny

**wolfis.com** · 11-01-2008, 12:30 PM

donny - you misunderstood what i was saying:

yesterday morning approx. 11:30 pm the stats from the DAY BEFORE changed - so i thought it is the update - it went up a little - but the star thingy this stayed on - usually after a another half hour or so the star goes away - then in the afternoon - annother change of the stats from THE DAY BEFORE - this time it took all the increase and much more away .

so i am not taking the silly everyday up and down - i am talking about the stats that change after 24 hours ( and not only once but 2 times )

btw - what is the importants of having constantly these boots removed - yahoo does pay for it anyway - why don't you just let the system go it way and wait until yahoo tells you how much they pay - instead having the results going up and down like crazy every few hours ?

**south** · 11-01-2008, 12:37 PM

So is it better to not have a TQ score at all? For some reason, I have not been given one.. Don't misunderstand, if it's worse, please don't give me one Donny, but if it is..

**Donny Simonton** · 11-01-2008, 12:43 PM

Wolfis - The way our stats have worked for the past 10 months or so, is that as we get the final numbers in from our different providers we actually start finalizing each of them as they come in. So yes, yesterdays number may change today before they are final. For example Yahoo normally comes in at 9am PST, we have some that come in at 4am PST and some at 1pm PST. So instead of waiting for all of them to come in we process them at the top of the hour once they are in. And remove the * once all of them have come in. We do have ability to run them all at once, but we only do that maybe once every few months.

On average Yahoo pays for about 2% of what we think is a bot, we do a lot of things to stop all of them. If we were to let all of the bots through you may make more money, initially but then your TQ score would tank.

It's better to have a TQ score in the long run. Because if you don't you are grouped together with all of the people who don't have one.

Donny