LegalAdvice.net

[staffjam]

Hi,

I was wondering your thoughts on valuation of LegalAdvice.net ?
I'm currently building out a small site - which should generate more traffic.
But i'm just looking for a few ideas on value for reseller and end user (for just the name)

Just as a guide: LegalAdvice.info sold for $1,050 and Legal-Advice.org sold for $500.

Thanks for any comments.

[Maxwell]

$2,000 easy.

People are litigious. Laws are complicated. And when one runs into legal trouble it is typically advisable that they seek legal advice.

Providing legal advice online is a great way for new lawyers to get their feet wet, or established lawyers to make a little extra dough.

Obviously, the .com would be worth significantly more... but owning these keywords in a .net is a good problem to have.

[south]

mid-high xxxx imho

[Melly]

Reseller I would say you could easily get 1200 - 1500. For an end user I would say high x,xxx to low xx,xxx especially if you found the right buyer such as a law firm or paralegal corporation.

[WhoDatDog]

I had a feeling this name would get high appraisals. I'm not so sure about it. Whatever those appraising are willing to offer right now would at least set the bar. The problem is that most who appraise aren't ready to make offers. Their appraisals are based on best-case scenarios, usually. Is there really someone in this thread that is ready to transfer 2K from their checking account to you so they can have a name that will do nothing on its own? This name works only as part of a business plan, and if the buyer turns it into a real business then the value then lies in the business...not the name, especially since it is a .net and it will bring zero type-in traffic on it's own.

Some will say it has great keywords and will get good placing in search engines. To this I ask: "If you have 100 people who start an online legal information business today, which one will do the best". It isn't necessarily the one who owns LegalAdvice.net, so in my opinion there really isn't that much extra value brought to the table with the name. The two words make perfect sense, but that benefit is immediately wiped out by the .net. Do you really want to start a serious business with LegalAdvice.net? If you do, then the moment you are a success the person who owns LegalAdvice.com will benefit. LegalAdvice.com is a parked page, so even a name that is infinitely stronger than LegalAdvice.net is not being used as part of a business.

When push comes to shove, those who appraise this name high are essentially saying that they would rather have the name than the amount they are appraising it for (or within a close range). I don't buy it. I know for a fact that if you paid a few thousand for too many names like LegalAdvice.net you would go broke and be in bankrutpcy court. The moment you buy it the clock starts ticking. It brings in no money on its own, it pumps no oil. At that point the only alternative it to start an online legal business and expect to get paid for it. There are thousands of sites out there with every bit of information you could possibly put on the site, and that information is free.

So, be my guest. If someone does decide to start a business after buying this name for a few K, then make sure you come back here after you have turned a profit, and don't forget to include all of the hours you put into the business. That should be factored into your total cost. The math doesn't add up. If the name of the game is to make money, you will lose big time buying names like this.

Also, to suggest that an end-user would pay a lot of money for this name it a bit of a reach. Who are these end-users? Haven't the tens of thousands of attorneys and legal professionals had enough time for one of them to make a strong unsolicited offer on this name? I mean, they are in the legal field, and good legal domain names get unsolicited offers all of the time. I am guessing there aren't a lot of inquiries about this name. It doesn't give anyone a competitive advantage, so they don't need to pay big money for it. End of story.

This is the type of name that once you own it you think it is worth much more than it really is. It sits there and does nothing, but it looks like it should be worth something, so you keep it there in your account....doing nothing. Nobody comes pursuing the name, so it sits there again for many more years. Finally, you need assurance as to its value, so you ask a bunch of people who are not prepared to make cash money offers what they think it is worth.

It is not worth the best-case scenario that most think. I can't argue if someone here wants to make a cash offer for it. Whatever they legitimately offer will give you an idea. Not what they say they might offer if they were thinking about buying it, if it wasn't Christmas, and if they didn't have a bunch of other projects going on.

[randomo]

[...]
The problem is that most who appraise aren't ready to make offers.
[...]
When push comes to shove, those who appraise this name high are essentially saying that they would rather have the name than the amount they are appraising it for (or within a close range).
[...]

I think appraisers are very seldom saying anything like that - though I understand you have a different view.

Most appraisers, I imagine, do some sort of informal/unconscious calculation: probability that this domain would help popularize a well-developed site, times the revenue such a site might generate, minus the expense of developing such a site; or perhaps likely price an end-user would be willing to pay, times the probability that such an end user will be found, minus the cost of looking for an end-user and the cost of holding this domain (and/or the opportunity cost of not using those dollars for some other investment).

I can legitimately say a domain is worth such-and-such, due to those calculations. That doesn't mean I'd pay anywhere near that price for it, as I am neither an able developer nor a successful seller to end-users. A prize steer has great value to skilled cattle breeders but very little value to me.

[Gerry]

In regards to appraising, that is a service - a FREE service offered here at DNForum.

You can pay for a so called professional appraisal which is nothing more than an educated guess by someone who works at a domaining company.

Point is, AS A SERVICE (whether free or paid) an appraisal is not a commitment to buy (or sell).

To those of you who say that those that appraise aren't ready to make offers... since when in ANY industry (housing, antiquities, automobiles) is an APPRAISAL AN OFFER TO BUY FOR THAT AMOUNT?

If some of you think that the person making the appraisal should be writing a check, then you need to get a grip on reality and a grip on what constitutes an offer and an appraisal.

[staffjam]

Thankyou everyone for your appraisals.
I feel i have to respond to Whodatdog though.

Firstly i’d like to thank you for the time you put into your comment – it was interesting and certainly expressed your viewpoint – but a lot of things you said i strongly disagree with.

You talk a lot about development and building successful site – have you built many successful sites? –
Most domainers are not developers and the stories told on the forums and blogs are that successful development is very hard and yes in most cases it is. But sometimes it’s easier than you would think.

I will actually be building this one out myself – i will post back here in 10 months with a breakdown of costs, time spent and traffic figures – i think you will be surprised what can be done with a .net.

Also absolutely “No” benefit is wiped out by the name being a .net – you are thinking like a domain investor – not a developer.
When i do sell this name – i will not be selling the name but the leads the site generates and the domain name will eventually have quite a large impact on the search engine positions i achieve. Obviously the rest of the content has to back it up and quality backlinks are needed, but again this is not as difficult as the “gurus” would have you believe.

As with all things it depends what you are buying the name for – i just want it for leads and am confident it will handsomely bring in a profit month after month.

[Gerry]

– you are thinking like a domain investor – not a developer.

By all means, develop. Because I agree with you 110%.

[south]

am confident it will handsomely bring in a profit month after month.

Couldn't agree more. I have seen the advertising & adwords budgets for quite a few law firms (customers of mine). This would be a bargain for even a small firm in the xxxx range.

Good luck!

[barefoot]

Imagine if the appraisers on Antiques Roadshow had to write a check for each item they appraised -- for the appraisal amount?

On the show, they say something like, "At auction, I'd estimate this item would sell for between $xxx and $xxx" (a range strongly determined by prior sales of very similar items).

They don't say, "I appraise this item at $xxx -- and I'll give you that amount right now!" LOL

[south]

Imagine if the appraisers on Antiques Roadshow had to write a check for each item they appraised -- for the appraisal amount?

On the show, they say something like, "At auction, I'd estimate this item would sell for between $xxx and $xxx" (a range strongly determined by prior sales of very similar items).

They don't say, "I appraise this item at $xxx -- and I'll give you that amount right now!" LOL

Legaladvice.net shows excellent patina dating back to 1997.

The provenance of the domain doesn't look so good though, appears it has always been parked.

[Gerry]

They don't say, "I appraise this item at $xxx -- and I'll give you that amount right now!" LOL

Actually, that happened once off camera. It ended up in court and was a major, major battle.

Long story. Suffice to say it was a greatgrandson of a famous civil war general who brought in an entire trunk (belonging to the general) full of authentic civil war items.

This segment was never broadcast on the show. The appraiser afterwards purchased the entire trunk and all its contents. One item, a hand-drawn, hand-painted actual battlefield map showing all the encampments and enemy positions of Gettysburg sold for over $100K, and that was to another dealer who most likely already had a buyer lined up. This was perhaps 10 or more years ago. The entire trunk load was a haul of a million plus, including the actual trunk, not to mention the general's hat and epilettes. This ended up in court and was a long protracted case involving numerous people. It has a lot to do with "in good faith" regarding the offer and being taken advantage of. The folks at Antiques Roadshow tried their damnest to stay out of it but were dragged into it.

[staffjam]

Sorry - one more point - you mention that the .com owner will benefit and my answer to this is: who cares. He won't sell me his name and i'm not really concerned about him being a competitor either. Also I don’t think you give visitors enough credit. If someone had visited the website LegalAdvice.net and they accidentally type in the .com it really isn't the end of the world. They will realize it’s not the site they were after and just leave – they will not blindly click on ads hoping to find the site they originally visited.

[randomo]

When i do sell this name – i will not be selling the name but the leads the site generates and the domain name will eventually have quite a large impact on the search engine positions i achieve. Obviously the rest of the content has to back it up and quality backlinks are needed, but again this is not as difficult as the “gurus” would have you believe.

That sounds like a good plan, and I wish you well with it. It does beg the question, though - how much does this exact domain name contribute to the ultimate success of your project? If you could achieve similar results with a new reg, then the value of your domain is diminished. But if, as you anticipate, this nice keyword phrase will significantly boost your SEO results [in a way that a cheaply available domain could not], then the domain has good value.

[Gerry]

DO NOT look at it that the .com owner will benefit. I view it as the .com owner will lose traffic to the .net IF the .net is actually a site with relevant information.

Computer users are too savvy now, not to mention mobile devices. The Consumer knows what a parked page looks like.

By having a site you are liable to rank higher than the parked com. So no, you would not be losing traffic to the .com. You would be getting traffic that either never actually existed or from consumers who are tired of landing pages full of ads.

[south]

DO NOT look at it that the .com owner will benefit. I view it as the .com owner will lose traffic to the .net IF the .net is actually a site with relevant information.

Correct.

Computer users are too savvy now.

Not so sure about that one..

What really matters now is what is ranked. So many people use search engines, even if they know the domain name. And as long as "legal advice" shows up in the search suggestions by the engine, and you rank it well, it will do just fine. Also keep in mind that google knows the difference between a developed site and a parked page. They will even suggest your site over the parked page. After you get some ranking, the engines will say "did you mean legaladvice.net?"

[staffjam]

Randomo - i believe the name will have a big impact on the ranking the site achieves and once the site is up and running and there are some good links coming in (Not directories / blogs, etc..) it will rank quite nicely. No-one knows what value google places on exact match domain names and i can only talk from personal experience - but from what i have seen from my sites and sites of my competitors the domain name really does make a big difference.
One important thing to note is it doesn't matter what extension the name is in: .com, .net, .org, .info - some will argue that you see more .coms at the top and that is because it's the most popular extension. It's somewhat niaeve to think a company like google would weight one extension higher than the other - all their algo is interested in is: Does your site provide value to the visitor, is it a trusted source and does the page people are being sent to match up with the term you have just entered. Extension is irrelevant (in my opinion) - Obviously when it comes to selling the site a .com will get a better price than the .info - but you've got to get there first!

[Bionic]

Traffic is traffic and potent keyword .nets are suitable for SEO.

I'm thinking a forum, Legal Advice Network, but hard to lure the experts in to get it going!

[WhoDatDog]

An appraisal is pretty much without weight if the person doing the appraising would never dream of paying anywhere close to the price. In the case of a house, like someone previously said, if the house appraiser's appraisal is legitimate at say, 250k, then the appraiser would certainly buy the house for 125k if given the opportunity and make a nice profit. Any asset that has real value will find a buyer at a substantial discount to that value.

In this case, most of the appraisals really cannot be taken seriously, since not a single person is confident enough in the name that they would buy it now for anywhere near what they are appraising. Compare that, for example, with a three-letter dotcom. Whatever the going rate is, that sets the benchmark, so if the absolute least amount that three-letter dotcoms are going for is $2,500, then most everyone would offer $1,250, if given the chance, then they would just turn around and sell the name here and double their money. In that case, they could say that the name is worth at a minimum $2,500, since that is the current minimum, but then they could also appraise with a higher number by saying that the letters are good letters, etc. The point is that the appraisal is always at least based on what some human being on planet earth right now would reasonably pay.

If you take some jewelry to get appraised for insurance purposes, and the jeweler appraises it for 15K, that really doesn't mean you can sell it to any human for 15K. Go ahead and ask that guy to give you 15K for the jewelry and you will soon see how far off that 15K number is. Ever see the classified ads where some fool is trying to sell a not so valuable piece of jewelry? They almost always mention an appraised price........something like Appraised at $4,500, will sacrifice for $3,000. If the appraisal meant anything at all, the person doing the appraising would at least buy the jewelry at a big discount, or there should be willing buyers whom the appraiser could match up with the seller.

If your idea of a 3K name is one that cannot be sold on this forum right now for anywhere near that, and can only have value if the name is used as part of a business, or is sold to and end-user for that amount, then by all means, keep throwing around numbers that nobody is prepared to pay right now. You shouldn't be taken seriously. If the odds are 10 percent that a seller finds an end-user for a sale of 3K, that does not make the name worth 3k. Not even close.

A name is worth what you would reasonably expect someone to pay for it in the current market. That is what all assets are worth. LegalAdvice.net is not a good name in my mind, but if you think it is, then let's see some hard money offers that are at least within shouting distance of your sky high, mostly pipe-dream appraisals that really have nothing backing them up except a bunch of gobblygook about starting online legal businesses, etc. This name doesn't give anyone a great advantage, and whatever becomes of it will be the result of exhausting work, not a great domain name.

There is a section here at Dn Forum where people can chat about web development all day long. Some names really lend themselves to development. Maybe they bring type-in traffic. Maybe they are just great names, but a really good name brings something to the table that other people in its specific industry desire. When that is the case, those people will inquire about the name, make an offer, and then build their business around the name because the name adds value to the business. If this name was a good name then there would be unsolicited emails from those in the legal field, and they would be offering real money. As it is, tens of thousands of people in the area of Law have essentially said no to this name. If they thought it had value they would see that the name was parked, check the Whois, and then send an email trying to acquire this so-called "Gem". It isn't happening, and it won't happen. And those are the exact end-users whom you say would want it. It doesn't make sense.

There are tons of legal advice sights out there. Go ahead and send 100 emails and see if anybody is interested. A good name will get sold if/when you put it in front of its target audience and logical buyer(s).

This name is a DUD. Nobody needs it.