Question about value of Trademarks along with Domain Names

**woeger** · 10-19-2002, 04:04 PM

I am thinking about possibly selling the Domain names:

deepworship.com, .net. and org

The question on valuation I had was to a package of the domains along with 4 registered U.S. Trademarks on the root name "DEEP WORSHIP ". I paid hefty trademark reg. fees for these 4 trademarks (i.e. to protect the name's use in 4 different trademark classifications) and spent almost 2 years haggling with the U.S. trademark office attorneys to get these 4 trademarks approved.

Does anyone know of some sites that specialize in selling U.S. trademarks (along with the domain names)? Has anyone on this forum sold off U.S. Trademarks along with matching domain names before?

This domain would be great for a Christian music company, Christian music group, record label, publishing house, church, ministry, etc.

Anyway, I would appreciate an appraisal as to the value of these domain names and the 4 trademarks combined. Thanks!

Adam

P.S. You can research my 4 registered trademarks by going to the Trademark office site and clicking on "Search Trademarks", select "New User Search (Basic)" and enter the two words separated by a space: deep worship

http://www.uspto.gov/main/trademarks.htm

**GiantDomains** · 10-19-2002, 04:13 PM

You should have a mod move this to "legal".

The person interested in the TM, must have a use for the TM in one of the 4 categories you chose..

Or they too, will have to go through years of TM appliactions, etc...

What are the 4 categories?...Target buyers in these industries..

TMs hold value if the user is going to use the TM in places other than the internet...(other than intangible, etc...)

If you already own the .com, and there is no TM...the .com is sort of a statutory TM.. meaning if someone applies for the TM after you purchased the .com, they will not be "grandfathered" your domain name.

So in the internet world... TMs are not of "great" value.. If all of your business is intangible.

If you are going to brand "products", etc... of course, a TM is essential.

**woeger** · 10-19-2002, 04:21 PM

Well, I thought about posting this to legal, but I am seeking an appraisal of value of the domains along with their associated trademarks so I thought the 'appraisal category' would fit the best for this post.

I am not so much looking for legal info about Trademarks, but a valuation of bundling the trademarks along with the associated domain names in .com, .net and .org extensions. Think of it as similar to selling a developed web site along with a domain. My domain names have the "extra" value added of having 4 good trademark registrations with the same name.

You asked, so the tradmark categories are: 9, 16, 25 and 41.

This corresponds to: printed material (books, etc.), computer software, audio recordings (records, tapes and music CDs), video recordings, t-shirts and almost all clothing with the name on it, and a service mark (SM) using the name (Deep Worship) in connection with live musical performances, concert bookings, etc.

So as you can see I have the name widely covered for the uses I have been using it for. I was wondering if there is a place you would recommend where domains along with valuable trademarks can be sold as a bundle and an approximate value for this domain and trademark bundle?

Thanks,

Adam

**GiantDomains** · 10-19-2002, 04:24 PM

These TM are very valuable to anyone intersted in branding in these areas...(with interest in the phrase "deep worship")

A TM lawyer can charge $30,000 for each of the TM categories you did all the dirty work in. Good job in successfuly landing them.

**woeger** · 10-19-2002, 04:34 PM

Yes I had to write legal arguments on my own to refute the rejection notices by some of the examining trademark office attorneys. They agreed with my arguments and in each case granted the trademark. It was a long but interesting experience.

So I take it that the value of the 4 trademarks supercede the value of the domain name by itself. That is why I would like to get an appraisal of the combined value of the domains names with the 4 trademarks. I know this is a valuable package, but I just don't know how to go about looking for potential buyers to this package of domains and trademarks.

Does anyone on the forum have any advice or experience with where I can sell this bundled domain/trademark package? I was hoping there would be a web site that specialized in this type of sale. Also anyone have a good estimate as to value for this bundle? Doberry says it would take a lawyer about $30,000 in legal fees to get a trademark in each of the 4 categories which would mean about $120,000.00 in legal fees to get to the point where I am now with these 4 trademarks. They obviously have a good value and in the Christian music world "worship" is all the rage right now.

I just need to find out how to convert that value into some cash.

**GiantDomains** · 10-19-2002, 04:40 PM

Yes...If you forsee a challenge, a laywer is the way to go.. and upon success will cost about 30 G's...

Of course you can do the dirty work yourself.. and pay nothing except the application fees (under $500, isnt it?)...

Why so much for a lawyer? You are basically hiring the lawyer as the sole point of contact and arguement for the length of the process...1-2 years in most cases.. sometimes 6 months (uncontested)...

But seeing as you can do all this yourself (as you did), the value of the successful TM should not be determined by hypothetical attorney fees...

**woeger** · 10-19-2002, 04:48 PM

doberry, you are correct. The filing fees are $325.00 per trademark classification/name, so the "self-filing" fees alone are $1,300.00 for the marks I have. That does not include my time, legal research, etc.

As you are probably aware, most (or at least many) of self-filed trademark applications (those people not represented by lawyers) get rejected and the filing fee is lost. It is quite hard to get a trademark on your own without a lawyer as trademark law can be quite hard for a layman to navigate.

I am curious what you think is a good appraisal for the worth of the domains plus the 4 trademarks? I appreciate all who reply with thier appraisals.

**GiantDomains** · 10-19-2002, 05:01 PM

Is "deep worship" a phrase in demand, as far as a TM and branding?

**options** · 10-19-2002, 05:04 PM

That is really interesting Woeger.
As you said "4 trademarks supercede the value of the domain name" and I agree with that.
Doberry has some reserve in using trademarks in Internet business but I think of it as extremely promissing.

Although your registered name IMO is not so great, one thing is for sure: You are the very pioneer of "TM reselling" and if allowed, it can become explosive business even in near future.

**GiantDomains** · 10-19-2002, 05:11 PM

The value is in the name or phrase....just like a domain name...

You can pay an attorney 30K in fees for TM's in 9 categories... with the phrase "hey my domains are cheap"

That certainly does not mean the TMs are worth 30K... they can in fact, be of NO value...

**options** · 10-19-2002, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by doberry
The value is in the name or phrase....just like a domain name...

You can pay an attorney 30K in fees for TM's in 9 categories... with the phrase "hey my domains are cheap"

That certainly does not mean the TMs are worth 30K... they can in fact, be of NO value...

Exactly.
Or you can register a no value name for $8.
But if you TM a good name...