$8,500 STOLEN by Prateek Jain & Chirag Shah

[MAllie]

On behalf of work-at-home mothers everywhere, let me assure you that there is much more to do in this job than merely sitting at the computer clicking the names provided by relatives or friends. I would be glad to see the articles to which you refer, or at least have the source quoted.

I am sure that work-at-home mothers are as likely to carry out fraud as other groups, but the idea that 'armies' of them are at it seems ludicrous to me. Who do you think puts the meals on the table and runs the household?

[trader]

Originally Posted by MAllie

On behalf of work-at-home mothers everywhere, let me assure you that there is much more to do in this job than merely sitting at the computer clicking the names provided by relatives or friends. I would be glad to see the articles to which you refer, or at least have the source quoted.

I am sure that work-at-home mothers are as likely to carry out fraud as other groups, but the idea that 'armies' of them are at it seems ludicrous to me. Who do you think puts the meals on the table and runs the household?

I never said that but the media has reported it a lot, on TV prime time too.

http://www.clickfraudreport.com/arch..._secret_a.html

http://www.labnol.org/internet/blogg...enerated/2408/

http://www.labnol.org/internet/blogg...enerated/2408/

http://labnol.blogspot.com/2007/05/m...-in-india.html

http://www.goarticles.com/cgi-bin/showa.cgi?C=1074939

I am sure it does not invoilve mothers in Ireland.

It's just a figure of speech used by the media.

[nameadvertising.com]

Some of the Internet marketers flashing those huge (almost unbelievable) Adsense checks in the years gone by don't seem to show em no more. I wonder why??????

[MAllie]

Thanks for those links, trader. However, I have to say that I didn't find them convincing. The language used is vague - 'a recent report suggests,' 'It's widely believed,' 'There is a perception,' - and so on. It's also widely believed that UFO's regularly fly over our cities, but that doesn't make it so. I was particularly interested to note that the 'Maestro of fraudsters' mentioned in one of the articles became a 'She' in the next line, with no evidence offered for this whatsoever.

In the first article cited, we are given the (supposedly changed) name of one woman (Maya Sharma), and quickly led into the understanding that she is just one of many of her ilk. But since we don't even know if she is a real person, this is not a very satisfactory conclusion. Even if she is real one swallow, as we all know, does not make a summer.

I have no doubt that click fraud abounds on the net, but I dislike the unfounded suggestion that it mainly originates in India. Much stronger evidence is needed for that. I would also be surprised if, with all the resources Google et al have at their disposal, any single fraudster is able to continue very long under the one identity. If anyone is benefiting from such fraud I would imagine it is someone shadowy who pays peanuts to people to click for a few hours, after which they become dispensable.

[Steen]

Originally Posted by sdsinc

But I am wondering if there has been any further communication between Prateek/Steen/Chirag ?

I emailed Prateek saying that I would be open to compensation including domain names. I also told him anything other than his specific offer/resolution would be completely out in the open. He advised that he would need to wait for "Chirag" to get back from vacation before he could make a proposal and that it would include domains valued up to $6500 as "Chirag" feels the value has dropped. This communication was Aug 14. I have not heard anything since and am still awaiting this proposal in hopes of not having to escalate this issue.

[Acro]

Clickfarms in India are responsible for a lot of the fake traffic that generates millions of dollars for those that employ them. This is not news, it's a malpractice that has been going on for years. Blame the cheap labor, abundant workforce willing to do tasks of this kind and ability to recycle them if needed. It's an army of ants.

[nameadvertising.com]

If common sense prevails, you all should know that clicks originating from India are pennies compared to the dimes and dollars in other parts of the world. Adsense did not account for big advertisers in India, especially in 2004. For US and European based advertisers clicks originating from India account for negligible revenue.

Fraud occurs everywhere, but unless one tests it to even suggest that millions were made and clicksters were paid $300 a month is absurd. Someone clicking on Insurance and credit ads from New Delhi and earning hundreds a month is baseless.

Someone picks up on a report and it goes viral. Considering usage and the number of people online, the USA is the fraud capital of world. I could be wrong. But I have seen enough from both places to know better.

I own a lot of India centric names and even for the ones with good traffic and CTR, the clicks from Adsense never amount to more than 7 cents in best of times. And this, since 2004.

I wonder if those house wives or work at home mothers are still involved with this scam.

[trader]

Originally Posted by MAllie

...but I dislike the unfounded suggestion that it mainly originates in India.

The map showing India #1 is on this page http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/02/22...rcent-in-2007/

These schemes are quite sophisticated. I would not be surprised if the India located people are supplied with ways to use vast numbers of IP's which are somehow indicating they are located in other nations possibly using proxies or cloaking services.

Originally Posted by nameadvertising.com

If common sense prevails, you all should know that clicks originating from India are pennies compared to the dimes and dollars in other parts of the world.

[nameadvertising.com]

Wow! Germany too. That is a total surprise. 3rd biggest economy clicking away...

What bugs me is that they can collect fraud data but not catch the culprits. If I were Google, I'd turn the web upside down to solve this once and for all.

Coming back to Steen getting scammed, I would still like to know if having a minimum 12 month stats ( for sales based on traffic/rev) should be made mandatory before anyone can sell. At least the data will be more reliable and parking companies will have ample time to scan for the con artists.

[mediawizard]

Originally Posted by GAMEFINEST

You have no idea how many people from india do this all day long, from programmers to "seo specialists"

Do you have any figures, since you do know...

Originally Posted by trader

I am sure there is much more fraud as a percentage in India and nations in the area than elsewhere. There are armies of work at home moms all over the area who are paid to click all day. That has been written about in the media.

Zzzzzzzz and you know this because?... And since when did the media become an authority on anything? they still think domainers are all cyber squatters or frauds.

Originally Posted by Acro

Clickfarms in India are responsible for a lot of the fake traffic that generates millions of dollars for those that employ them. This is not news, it's a malpractice that has been going on for years. Blame the cheap labor, abundant workforce willing to do tasks of this kind and ability to recycle them if needed. It's an army of ants.

And america doesn't? Guess where these schemes actually originated and who taught these people about click fraud - people who hired them to start with.

Surprisingly these ants seem to be taking over jobs of skilled labour in US. Do you really think this is specific to India as a whole or to some people from there?

Don't paint the whole country with the same brush just because there are a few bad apples - not like America doesn't have any fraud or fraudsters... remember registerfly?

[jasdon11]

I guess that most US advertisers are looking to generate business within America, maybe Europe - these companies will only target and pay for clicks coming from the regions they're interested in (through their Adwords cp). So click farms in India will have no effect on them. The only click fraud that will effect them, is that which originates in the countries that they are paying for clicks from.
Or am I missing something?

[itrends]

Sounds to me like a change of host and whois caused the pay outs to be re-evaled. If it had been left on the previous host and contact details etc totally un-changed then it may have continued at the previous rate. Just a thought

Also, could it be related to this? http://www.dnforum.com/f215/revenu-d...ad-292222.html

[-ET-]

Originally Posted by mediawizard

And america doesn't? Guess where these schemes actually originated and who taught these people about click fraud - people who hired them to start with.

Surprisingly these ants seem to be taking over jobs of skilled labour in US. Do you really think this is specific to India as a whole or to some people from there?

Don't paint the whole country with the same brush just because there are a few bad apples - not like America doesn't have any fraud or fraudsters... remember registerfly?

Very well said Samit.

[.biz]

So Steen, did you get the issue resolved?

[PVFARKAS]

Originally Posted by prateekj

Shoval,

This is shocking news to me!

I remember you mailing me once about whether I knew one of them (cant remember which 1). That time too I had made it clear that I do not know him personally. Now let me be more clear. Out of all the people mentioned above, I only know Chirag Shah. Through him, I have bought a couple of domains myself from Chetan. In fact, I had actually been offered usbankfinance.com but I rejected it. From what I know, the DS account that got blocked belonged to Chetan and all of the mentioned people including Chirag used to park their domains in the same DS account.

When this whole chaze fiasco happened, Chirag had told me that the reason behind the DS account getting blocked was that a couple of the above people may have infact been involved in some 'questionable' activities but he had also assured me that the chaze domain was completely clean. Now, I too am having some doubts.

What these guys do and how they do it, I don't know. All I can tell you is that I still park my domains with DS and these are all my domains which receive clean traffic from type-ins, typos etc.

I too buy typos regularly from this forum. Now tell me one thing, if I were involved in such activities, why would I spend thousands of dollars on genuine typos, when I could simply register typos and generate fake traffic to them and then sell them for thousands?

Shoval, as far as the domains that you bough are concerned, it seems that a majority of them have seasonal traffic. Maybe thats why the traffic dies out. For example, icl 2020, ipl 2020 are major cricket leagues in India. Everytime there is a tournament, the traffic should come back. Yamaha r15 is a bike that was recently launched in India. Maybe the traffic died out once the hype over this bike got over. You can rest assured about these names getting their traffic back. As far as the other domains go, you should check with your parking proivider. Maybe the traffic is in fact fraudulent. As far as our so called 'group' from Mumbai goes, I am not part of any such group. I haven't even met any of them other than Chirag.

The fact again is that I was the broker in the chaze deal but now I feel like a victim. I don't know what to do. I feel cheated and violated myself. I am sick and tired of this deal. Steen, I am really sorry for having sold you the domain. Had I any clue whatsoever that this domain could be involved in fraud, I would have thrown it back at Chirag. Now, all I can do is help you in getting the money back from Chirag or atleast get some domains that receive similar earnings. This is the best I can do.

If you are interested in any such resolution, lets keep in touch through email.

Prateek

Ok, from my quick read, you never rebutted that you failed to state your a broker; you claim its hard to predict traffic and yet the seasonal traffic definitely will return; you deferred 'going after' your 'client' until the buyer demonstrated more proof (strange move? if you felt vulnerable you would have brought him forth right away); you now conveniently learn that other names in the group had questionable activity with accounts closed, but yet represent somehow that the subject name is absolutely clean? Clean? No, the whole thing smells foul.

One of two things should happen here. Either you go down with your bad deal, get banned from all major domaining forums, and find something else to do, OR minimally, publish your broker fee, refund that, bring the buyer to the forum, and get him to refund at least half of the money.

[domaingenius]

I get the feeling that this is going to go around, and around and around and no
one is going to get anything at all from it. That's how it sounds and I would
forget wasting time trying and get on with finding other names. Easy to say
but otherwise you simply will waste more time. If the persons you were
dealing with had any iota of morals then they would have done something by
now, all they are doing is stringing you along till you get bored.

DG

[SeatBeltPads.com]

this is what I always say about traffic domains - I am certain the seller did not lie nor commit click fraud - parking and ad revenues have simply dropped like crazy - also traffic domains rev does trickle off - lazy ppl that just want to buy domains to park for rev - deserve to have this happen - if a name is guranteed to make park rev forever, who would ever sell.

[dn-101]

I hope I don't sound politically incorrect.
I do a fair amount of work in Asia. I find that the Pakistani folks do a somewhat better work, & there is better understanding of what & when has to be done.
Some folks, though, perceive us differently. From what I understand it's a mostly cultural & deeply ingrained 'perception', that non-Hindus are actually the 'figments' of imagination. The Western concept of 'existence' doesn't quite cut it here.

[exponent]

No offense meant to anyone, but there are a LOT of scammers coming out of India and Pakistan. Keep in mind that over 1.3 billion people live within them (mostly in India). I hope Mr. Jain and Mr. Shah realize that without addressing this matter that it gives honest traders an unfair disadvantage.

While the police in India and Pakistan are laughable at best, act like you've got some sense because one day you're going to rip off the wrong person and end up paying severely. Karma comes back around, just wait and see.

[domaingenius]

Originally Posted by exponent

No offense meant to anyone, but there are a LOT of scammers coming out of India and Pakistan. Keep in mind that over 1.3 billion people live within them (mostly in India). I hope Mr. Jain and Mr. Shah realize that without addressing this matter that it gives honest traders an unfair disadvantage.

While the police in India and Pakistan are laughable at best, act like you've got some sense because one day you're going to rip off the wrong person and end up paying severely. Karma comes back around, just wait and see.

Also bear in mind that the names may well be made up. What
better way to put off the conned party than pretend the
conman is in India or Pakistan !. I have learnt never to
assume the whois details or any other info is correct
unless verified. Mr Jain may infact be Mr Bush from USA
who actually knows for 101% certainty ?

DG