BCN.qc.ca, SAB.qc.ca Domain Conflict

**domainatrix** · 10-29-2010, 01:12 PM

I noticed in the Sibername TBR pre-auction area, that these two domains have already been bid up to over $300 each for the upcoming Nov 3rd drop.

I was under the impression Provincial Domains were no longer supported, so I called a couple of Registrars and both told me that if you catch one of these domains, you will no longer be able to register the CCTLD.

So if you bid $1000 and win SAB.qc.ca, you own it, but you can't register SAB.ca.

Does that make any sense?? For all of you holding provincial extensions and did not register the CCTLD, were you made aware that you would lose the rights to that upper level domains?

**hugegrowth** · 10-29-2010, 02:03 PM

who has the rights to the upper level domain then?

I have one .qc.ca that I haven't bothered getting the .ca for, It's an LLL so I hope what you're saying isn't right.

It doesn't make sense, it would mean the .ca stays in limbo forever.

**silentg** · 10-29-2010, 02:24 PM

I have contacted CIRA recently regarding this and they told me that I must get permission from name.on.ca to register name.ca. (name.ca isn't taken). You should contact CIRA regarding this.

**fwdtech** · 10-29-2010, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by silentg

I have contacted CIRA recently regarding this and they told me that I must get permission from name.on.ca to register name.ca. (name.ca isn't taken).

How recently?

Part of this mammoth (mammoth.ca available for sale) mess by CIRA includes NOT being able to register the .ca of a domain with an existing provincial extension.

---------- Post added at 06:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:56 PM ----------

Originally Posted by hugegrowth

who has the rights to the upper level domain then?

I have one .qc.ca that I haven't bothered getting the .ca for, It's an LLL so I hope what you're saying isn't right.

It doesn't make sense, it would mean the .ca stays in limbo forever.

It does NOT make sense. This was another of the surprises by the MENSA club at CIRA.

**silentg** · 10-29-2010, 08:15 PM

I got the reply on 9/23/2010.

Hello,

Thank you for contacting CIRA. The domain name you would like to register is not available for registration through the standard process because it is conflicting with an already existing domain name. It may still be possible to register the domain.

In order to register the domain you must contact the owner of the conflicting domain name and receive their permission to register the domain name that is in conflict with their name. If you receive permission you must then contact a CIRA Certified Registrar and request they submit a manual request to register a conflicting domain name. A list of CIRA Certified Registrars can be found at:

http://ro.cira.ca/re_choose_en

Once the request to register a conflicting domain name is received by our system we will contact the owner of the existing domain name and ask them to confirm with CIRA that they have granted permission for the conflicting domain name to be registered. Once we receive this confirmation the domain name application will be processed and the domain name will be registered.

If you require further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact our Customer Support Department by calling 1-877-860-1411. Alternatively, you may visit our public website at www.cira.ca and click on "Contact Us".

Kind regards,

Daniel-Richard J. Villeneuve
Registry Support Agent

Canadian Internet Registration Authority/Autorité Canadienne pour les enregistrement internet
350 Sparks Street, Suite 306
Ottawa, On K1R 7S8

**Banned: theinvestor** · 10-29-2010, 08:17 PM

I wish i knew the answer to this question... but i thought of this before the changes came through and actually registered all the mains of the provincial extensions.

**fwdtech** · 10-29-2010, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by silentg

I got the reply on 9/23/2010.

So, that's the old rules. Ended Oct. 12, except by SPECIAL exception by CIRA.
They do not grant SPECIAL exceptions.
The cut-off for conflicting domains (meaning for a different registrant, or more than one registrant holding the conflictings eg. pathways.on.ca & pathways.ab.ca ) was a week earlier.
We tried registering a conflicting (.ab.ca ) for a client who had the .ca and .bc.ca
However, they had 2 different registrant numbers, so it couldn't pass the automatic system, and CIRA wouldn't grant a manual exception.

**djallan** · 10-30-2010, 04:04 PM

I contacted CIRA about 3rd level domains shown on TBR - their response on Oct 27 was

"Thank you for contacting CIRA. Our development team is aware of the third level domain names appearing on the current TBR list and will be discussing the correction for this later today. The third level domain names will not be included in the TBR session as CIRA no longer supports these domain names. Thank you for bringing this to our attention, the names should not have been included with the list."

I was told, prior to Oct 12, that as of Oct. 13th 3rd level domains that are not renewed would be dropped, would not be available through TBR and would be unavailable for registration.

**Banned: theinvestor** · 10-30-2010, 04:33 PM

I'm confused now ..aren't they appearing in TBR because they are not registered in anything else?

If you they simply don't include them does that mean you can register the main domain after TBR?

**djallan** · 10-30-2010, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by theinvestor

I'm confused now ..aren't they appearing in TBR because they are not registered in anything else?

If you they simply don't include them does that mean you can register the main domain after TBR?

Another quote from CIRA
"however if these registrations are allowed to lapse the domain name will not be released for re registration and at that time if there are no other grandfathered 3rd or 4th level domain names the top level .CA will then become available for registration"

Theoretically the top level name would become available after the 30 days and the grace redemption period.

**whitebark** · 10-30-2010, 08:21 PM

So no more expired provincial domains then? Sucks for me and anyone else picking up expired provincial domains for parking/traffic. And what fun it will be timing the 30 days and trying to register the .ca versions before everyone else! And clearly an enterprising registrar is going to slam the registry till they get it. Will CIRA care or take notice to this? Certainly doesn't make it very fair for small registrars or individuals. Like others have said - it certainly appears like a few not to be named people have an odd in with CIRA and are rigging the registry to their own favour.

**Banned: theinvestor** · 10-30-2010, 09:35 PM

I still find this hard to believe that you can't pick up the provincials in TBR and register the mains. I am still doubtful about it..but we will see.

In my opinion it just hurts those who weren't quick enough to register their own domains.

The fact is if they start not showing them up in TBR most people won't know they will be available to register in 30 days....

**Maxwell** · 10-30-2010, 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by silentg

I have contacted CIRA recently regarding this and they told me that I must get permission from name.on.ca to register name.ca. (name.ca isn't taken). You should contact CIRA regarding this.

Suppose you owned name.on.ca. I don't think you'd have any problem giving yourself permission to register name.ca.

**urlurl** · 10-30-2010, 11:40 PM

what if someone owner name.on.ca and a different person owned name.qc.ca - who would be allowed to get name.ca?

**djallan** · 10-31-2010, 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by urlurl

what if someone owner name.on.ca and a different person owned name.qc.ca - who would be allowed to get name.ca?

Neither, unless one gets permission from the other, or one allows theirs to drop.

**domainatrix** · 10-31-2010, 11:17 AM

Up until Oct 12th, if you owned name.on.ca and no one else owned the other provincial equivalents, you could certainly give yourself permission to register "name.ca". But after Oct 13th, you can't even give yourself permission, at least that's what I've been told (now by 3 different registrars).

Was this clearly communicated to domain owners?

Take for examaple: giftoflife.on.ca - say they decide to become a national charity, but as you will notice, they did not register giftoflife.ca before Oct 12th. Now, based on the new rules, they can NEVER register that domain.

Totally makes no sense to me!!

**whitebark** · 10-31-2010, 11:40 AM

Hey wait a minute - I thought it was the reverse! Now we cannot register the .ca for provincial domains we already own even when we are the only owner! WTF!

Real improvement there CIRA.

---------- Post added at 09:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:36 AM ----------

most people won't know they will be available to register in 30 days

The key to your phrase is MOST. Registrars will have that information will they not? And like my earlier comment - they will slam the registry to secure the domain before everyone else in a fashion that is truly not fair and open. I would hope the largest like Pool and Sibername will not play that game...

**Banned: theinvestor** · 11-02-2010, 07:40 PM

I am glad i am not a part of this mess.... i wonder how many people are stuck in this situation.

**italiandragon** · 11-03-2010, 12:53 PM

I'm confused, why does anyone need permission if a "name.ca" is not registered? Just reg it. Or not?

**fwdtech** · 11-03-2010, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by domainatrix

Was this clearly communicated to domain owners?

Take for examaple: giftoflife.on.ca - say they decide to become a national charity, but as you will notice, they did not register giftoflife.ca before Oct 12th. Now, based on the new rules, they can NEVER register that domain.

Totally makes no sense to me!!

Originally Posted by whitebark

Hey wait a minute - I thought it was the reverse! Now we cannot register the .ca for provincial domains we already own even when we are the only owner! WTF!

Real improvement there CIRA.

We tried (but, no, of course CIRA didn't warn anyone)

http://www.dnforum.com/f510/oct-12-13-4-questions-thread-433685.html#post1937330