CIRA Board Elections Show of Support Phase underrway

[poing]

The CIRA Board Elections are happening again this year. Right now (until Sept 8), the "Show of Support" phase is happening. If you are a CIRA member, you can go to https://elections.cira.ca/2011/support/login/en and show support for the candidate of your choice. The member slate candidates that have received at least 20 shows of support will be in the election for the one member nominated seat that is available this year.

A list of the nominees can be found here:
https://elections.cira.ca/2011/membernominees/list/en

As you will note I (Frank Michlick) am one of the nominees, so dear moderators, if you feel that this post is promotional, please move it to the appropriate forum.Thanks.

[Spex]

done, even before seeing this thread.

Good luck Frank

[poing]

done, even before seeing this thread.

Good luck Frank

Thank you for your support.

[msn]

Could you post your platform here for those too lazy to click around for it?

[Ilze]

Frank,
You have been supporting Domainers in Canada for a long, long time. I already cast my vote for you, and certainly hope that everyone else
will. Having a friend of "domainers", on the CIRA board can only help our community.

[poing]

Frank,
You have been supporting Domainers in Canada for a long, long time. I already cast my vote for you, and certainly hope that everyone else
will. Having a friend of "domainers", on the CIRA board can only help our community.

Thank you very much Ilze.

---------- Post added at 11:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 AM ----------

Could you post your platform here for those too lazy to click around for it?

Writing something custom for the forums, will post later today - thanks for asking.

[katherine]

I would gladly cast my vote in favor of an advocate of relaxed restrictions on .ca.

[msn]

I would gladly cast my vote in favor of an advocate of relaxed restrictions on .ca.

That is one reason why you are not voting.

But for all intents and purposes, it is very simply a formality. If one looks at just how many likely new private registrations are actually for U.S. registrants you will get a feel for how low the hurdle is to hold a .ca domain - and since we buy domain names on a regular basis, can say that not every seller is actually a Canadian.

[katherine]

So is there any ambition within Cira other than keep thing cozy and untouched, and keep .ca sheltered from the pace of time.

Since 'poing' means fist in French, I expect to see some feathers ruffled

[msn]

The only reference to feathers there is to feather their own nests.

[poing]

That is one reason why you are not voting.

But for all intents and purposes, it is very simply a formality. If one looks at just how many likely new private registrations are actually for U.S. registrants you will get a feel for how low the hurdle is to hold a .ca domain - and since we buy domain names on a regular basis, can say that not every seller is actually a Canadian.

I would gladly cast my vote in favor of an advocate of relaxed restrictions on .ca.

So is there any ambition within Cira other than keep thing cozy and untouched, and keep .ca sheltered from the pace of time.

Since 'poing' means fist in French, I expect to see some feathers ruffled

You may overestimate the power of the board in CIRA, unfortunately it's only advising the management. I'm looking to represent the stakeholders on the board and since I come from the domaining community, I will of course represent their interests. One of my first missions aside from understanding more about the inner workings of CIRA will be to learn more about the registrant base and the CIRA membership. The elections seem to indicate a lack of interest in a way, maybe there's a way to engage people more.

The issue you bring up (presence requirements) is quite an interesting one. Most country ccTLDs seem to give this one up over time or soften it since it's hard to enforce. The main problem with the current situation in my mind is that it's easier for larger corporations to circumvent it and more difficult for individuals.

/Frank

---------- Post added at 07:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:27 PM ----------

Btw, there's less than 23 hours left for the show of support phase...

[msn]

The issue you bring up (presence requirements) is quite an interesting one. Most country ccTLDs seem to give this one up over time or soften it since it's hard to enforce. The main problem with the current situation in my mind is that it's easier for larger corporations to circumvent it and more difficult for individuals.

I am sorry but that is nonsense. Already CIRA checks to ensure that any 'corporate' registration is a valid company name, and they could very easily add the very same function to enable foreign entities with valid, qualifying CIPO trade mark registrations to be able to self-verify.

For individuals, every registrant as an Canadian citizen should only be able to enter a Canadian address. The system could ask for the province or territory first, then the municipality or county, and then the civic address. If someone is a Canadian citizen residing outside of Canada, they could tick a box and enter their information, which would automatically be sent to the verification team at CIRA to confirm, or pushed to the registrar to get a copy of the passport for that person.

Legal residents would follow this same procedure, with verification of the their status followed with annual renewals.

CIRA could - as the UK did - send a paper letter to whatever physical address is associated with the registrant and the registrant would then be required to enter a code from that letter to confirm the address and formally, and legally, accept the registration agreement.

It is not at all hard to do and would be easy to accomplish at very little cost, even with the millions and millions of dollars which are washing around CIRA.

[poing]

msn,

What's your stance? Should CIRA verify Canadian presence or allow foreign entities/people to own .CA domains and/or have a Canadian agent?

I am sorry but that is nonsense. Already CIRA checks to ensure that any 'corporate' registration is a valid company name, and they could very easily add the very same function to enable foreign entities with valid, qualifying CIPO trade mark registrations to be able to self-verify.

Maybe you're right an enforcement is not that difficult to do, but I'm not aware of any ccTLD that has been able to do so effectively. While the measures you mention below are a possibility, they still can be circumvented, i.e. by means of PO boxes in Canada etc.

Another question is, do we want the rules to tighten? For a domain investor with .CAs, an opening up of the market may seem the most beneficial... doesn't go for all stakeholders though.

For individuals, every registrant as an Canadian citizen should only be able to enter a Canadian address. The system could ask for the province or territory first, then the municipality or county, and then the civic address. If someone is a Canadian citizen residing outside of Canada, they could tick a box and enter their information, which would automatically be sent to the verification team at CIRA to confirm, or pushed to the registrar to get a copy of the passport for that person.

Legal residents would follow this same procedure, with verification of the their status followed with annual renewals

CIRA could - as the UK did - send a paper letter to whatever physical address is associated with the registrant and the registrant would then be required to enter a code from that letter to confirm the address and formally, and legally, accept the registration agreement.

It is not at all hard to do and would be easy to accomplish at very little cost, even with the millions and millions of dollars which are washing around CIRA.

I remember those letters as means of identify verification. In general I do think the interaction of the registry with the registrant should be kept to a minimum and should be handled by the registrar where possible. Anything else leads to confusion on the registrants end. Even Nominet has gone that way over the years. Also extra features like prescribing the order of the fields etc. will further limit the amount of registrars that are able to offer .CA domains.

Ultimately the question is a more general one. Should the requirements be softened, enforced more or strengthened... In the name of international trade etc., maybe a solution similar to the .US ccTLD is possible.

I think my history of having worked for Tucows/OpenSRS for 5 1/2 years and having continued to serve registries, registrars, resellers and Hosting companies will come in handy here. One of my first goals, should I get elected to the board, is to learn more about CIRA its position, its stakeholders etc. - assess the situation. This is what I _always_ do when starting a new project/job. This research has started and CIRA's staff has been giving assistance were possible. The situation is comparable with some other registries, but also quite unique, so I'm looking forward to possibility of learning more about it and helping to form consensus.

I will try to drop here on DNForum more often, but I also look forward to continuing the discussion on the campaign forum once it opens on Sept 13th.

[stewie]

Vote For Frank


Good Luck

[msn]

msn,

What's your stance? Should CIRA verify Canadian presence or allow foreign entities/people to own .CA domains and/or have a Canadian agent?

CIRA must enforce the rules on its books or remove the rules. What we have now is what you suggest, which is effectively agents, such as CRS and MarkMonitor using a Canadian entity to hold domains for foreign companies and breaking the Canadian presence and 'agency' rules. I can mention a law firm which has provided members for panels which set up shell companies to avoid the CIRA presence rule but are simply not allowed by the usage rules. There are also a number of registrars, such as Hexonet, which openly provide registrations for ineligible interests, and CIRA simply looks the other way.

I'm not aware of any ccTLD that has been able to do so effectively. While the measures you mention below are a possibility, they still can be circumvented, i.e. by means of PO boxes in Canada etc.

I have already given you an example: CIRA itself. They perform a real-time check of the company name when creating a RANT for a company registration. Canada Post can also supply its database technology to ensure valid addresses and so on, and as I said earlier, if someone has a non-compliant address - and you could include post offices boxes if you want - then the registrant would automatically go into a RIV check.

Another question is, do we want the rules to tighten? For a domain investor with .CAs, an opening up of the market may seem the most beneficial... doesn't go for all stakeholders though.

You seem to entirely miss the point here: what we have now is a two tier system whereby large companies, which can afford to have a contract with MarkMonitor, are able to pick up domains at will, and Joe Blow from Nebraska cannot. Either CIRA should enforce the rules or close up CIRA, drop all rules, and sign a 20 year deal with Verisign to sell .ca registrations for $4.25 per year.

A while ago we booked a purchase through sedo for a domain registered to MarkMonitor Canada and then found out the actual owner selling the domain registration to us was a company in California, not Canada. They did not in any way qualify for a .ca registration and so they did it through MarkMonitor.

As to domain valuations, it would seem you do not understand economics either. If opening up a registry would boost valuations then tell me about .be for example.

To open the market to anyone would result in a flood of new registrations - and one could argue this has already happened thanks in part to GoDaddy and the interesting registrations they have enabled recently - which helps registrars, such as Tucows, but it does nothing for end-user demand.

Would you seriously expect a company to offer $35,000 to purchase an aftermarket .ca domain name registration but then not go ahead because they could not afford $250 to then incorporate a Canadian affiliate?

While current speculators are getting washed out of the market, overall .ca prices are much better today than they were a year ago, and that is driven by end-user demand, not by increased registrations by people thinking they have bought a cheap virtual lottery ticket.

I remember those letters as means of identify verification. In general I do think the interaction of the registry with the registrant should be kept to a minimum and should be handled by the registrar where possible. Anything else leads to confusion on the registrants end. Even Nominet has gone that way over the years. Also extra features like prescribing the order of the fields etc. will further limit the amount of registrars that are able to offer .CA domains.

I would agree CIRA should be in the background. Please take a good look at DENIC and compare that to CIRA.

Also extra features like prescribing the order of the fields etc. will further limit the amount of registrars that are able to offer .CA domains.

That is really nonsense! If CIRA said ask for country, followed by the province or territory and so on, then a competent programmer could not accomplish this? If there was a registrar that could not implement that, they definitely should not in any way, shape, or form be handling data for anyone.

You also seem to have forgotten that CIRA changed everything last October and registrars often had to do an entire re-write of their systems.


If - or when - there will be a candidate who will promise to push for CIRA to become a lean, efficient and effective registry operator of the .ca space which is on par with or exceeds the operational benchmarks of the best ccTLD registries, then I will deliver the votes for such candidate.

[katherine]

So if I get this right Cira's role is purely advisory but as a body it doesn't really have a say in .ca governance ?

[msn]

So if I get this right Cira's role is purely advisory but as a body it doesn't really have a say in .ca governance ?

Currently CIRA operates the .ca registry and oversees itself. They have changed the rules from time to time, such as regarding 'membership' in CIRA, to ensure the current situation remains the way it is.

One item worth noting was the need to repay the university group which carried out management of the .ca registry before CIRA came to be: the costs of domain registrations were to cover overhead costs related to the actual operation of the .ca namespace and to pay down the debt owed to the old entity. As the payments eventually came to an end, the costs for registrations went down also, but they stuck at $8.50 and were then 'fees' and CIRA changed its terms to do advocacy and marketing and no longer work towards lowering the registration cost, and you could argue that costs going does more to increase access than paying public relations firms very high fees.

CIRA should be a utility, not an advocacy or lobbying group, clubhouse, or money bag.

When was the last time the Department of Motor Vehicle Registrations did a marketing campaign to increase motor vehicle registrations?

[poing]

Vote For Frank


Good Luck

Thank you.

---

So if I get this right Cira's role is purely advisory but as a body it doesn't really have a say in .ca governance ?

No, the role of the board is an advisory role to the management of CIRA. CIRA itself as a private non-profit organization makes the calls regarding .CA itself.

---

I have already given you an example: CIRA itself. They perform a real-time check of the company name when creating a RANT for a company registration. Canada Post can also supply its database technology to ensure valid addresses and so on, and as I said earlier, if someone has a non-compliant address - and you could include post offices boxes if you want - then the registrant would automatically go into a RIV check.

I actually didn't know they did that, but still I wouldn't consider it working well looking at the current situation.

You seem to entirely miss the point here: what we have now is a two tier system whereby large companies, which can afford to have a contract with MarkMonitor, are able to pick up domains at will, and Joe Blow from Nebraska cannot.

Not sure how I'm missing the point, whole discussion start with what I said - I bolded the corresponding part:

The issue you bring up (presence requirements) is quite an interesting one. Most country ccTLDs seem to give this one up over time or soften it since it's hard to enforce. The main problem with the current situation in my mind is that it's easier for larger corporations to circumvent it and more difficult for individuals.

As to domain valuations, it would seem you do not understand economics either. If opening up a registry would boost valuations then tell me about .be for example.

Where did I say it would not happen? I said for domain investors it would obviously be the most important issue/change. You were the one who seemed to argue for stricter rules. Of course this brings up value.

Would you seriously expect a company to offer $35,000 to purchase an aftermarket .ca domain name registration but then not go ahead because they could not afford $250 to then incorporate a Canadian affiliate?

Seen this thing happen on a speculator to speculator deal at a live domain auction at TRAFFIC Amsterdam. It's not just about incorporating, but the hassle of annual filings etc. But then again that was a domains speculator and not a company.

I would agree CIRA should be in the background. Please take a good look at DENIC and compare that to CIRA.

DENIC is a good example for that, but then again DENIC is owned jointly by all the registrars, or "providers" as DENIC calls them, so it's driven by them by design.

That is really nonsense! If CIRA said ask for country, followed by the province or territory and so on, then a competent programmer could not accomplish this? If there was a registrar that could not implement that, they definitely should not in any way, shape, or form be handling data for anyone.

You also seem to have forgotten that CIRA changed everything last October and registrars often had to do an entire re-write of their systems.

CIRA changed their system to an existing standard (EPP) which has already been adopted by many registries and registrars.

No biggie for CIRA to change, but something non-trivial for all registrars to change. You seem to forget that .CA is not the only TLD they offer... While I helped Tucows' resellers integrate OpenSRS, TLDs that had special requirements were left out. Domains are not the major source of income for a lot of registrars, since the profit margins on domains are relatively low.

If - or when - there will be a candidate who will promise to push for CIRA to become a lean, efficient and effective registry operator of the .ca space which is on par with or exceeds the operational benchmarks of the best ccTLD registries, then I will deliver the votes for such candidate.

Have you considered running yourself?

[msn]

I actually didn't know they did that, but still I wouldn't consider it working well looking at the current situation.

Since you asked for an example I provided you with one. You seem to argue that if something requires effort, it could not or should not be done.

Not sure how I'm missing the point, whole discussion start with what I said - I bolded the corresponding part:

I think you are missing the point: there is no need for stricter rules, only enforcement of the rules which already exist. This is not the current situation.

Therefore, if there is no enforcement of the rules - perhaps people think this requires too much effort - then remove the rules entirely and save the money, disband CIRA and let a private contractor operate it at a lower cost.

Seen this thing happen on a speculator to speculator deal at a live domain auction at TRAFFIC Amsterdam. It's not just about incorporating, but the hassle of annual filings etc. But then again that was a domains speculator and not a company.

Yes, and people have to renew their domains too. If an extra five minutes of work for an annual filing would not be worthwhile, then the domain is also not worthwhile.

DENIC is a good example for that, but then again DENIC is owned jointly by all the registrars, or "providers" as DENIC calls them, so it's driven by them by design.

First there was the .de name space, then there were registrars, not the other way around. Do you know for just how cheap a .de domain registration can be?

But back to efficiency: DENIC only allows one tag per registrar, whereas CIRA actively encourages multiple tags, even though this goes against the spirit of the rules. This adds to the cost and complexity of the .ca system and to the overheads of registrars.

CIRA changed their system to an existing standard (EPP) which has already been adopted by many registries and registrars.

No biggie for CIRA to change, but something non-trivial for all registrars to change. You seem to forget that .CA is not the only TLD they offer... While I helped Tucows' resellers integrate OpenSRS, TLDs that had special requirements were left out. Domains are not the major source of income for a lot of registrars, since the profit margins on domains are relatively low.

There are many .ca-only registrars, and they ate the cost of changing over their systems. Not every registrar happens to be a multi-million dollar enterprise.

If CIRA cared about margins they could lower the wholesale cost of .ca registrations and let registrars have a shot at making money without being squeezed into the TBR game.

Have you considered running yourself?

Since CIRA does not have a true open nomination and membership system, it would be pointless for me to try; this was quite clearly intimated to me already.

[Adam Dicker]

I also voted for Frank and DNF is firmly behind Frank.

I will NOT vote for Mark Hyndman who finds it necessary to call me dickhead in a few of his posts on dnf .ca, that is not the type of person I want on the CIRA board.

-=DCG=-