"Thanks for your interest but we are not interested in a .ca domain"

[Maxwell]

Ok. Cool. No problem.

I just didn't expect to hear it from a CANADIAN company, whose only retail locations are in Canada, and has a Canadian trademark on the term (we'll use "Example" as their term here), whose name I registered in TBR for the sole purpose of giving it to them to prevent it from falling into the wrong hands, and I had offered to transfer it to you for my out of pocket costs of about $15, and not a penny more.

Just to be clear, they're currently using example.com, and I offered them example.ca.

From the beginning...

Most people who know me know I deal in controversial domain names. However, certain domain names just can't be won in disputes, due to their uniqueness.

I figured that rather than playing virtual keep-away on domains I knew I'd lose, I'd register them and offer them to the rightful trademark holders at my cost, just as an act of good faith as a domainer, and to show that we're not all bad.

I did just that this week and the week before (the week before I was away, so the name only recently came into my possession), and I sent out the emails this morning.

The one in question went as follows:

Me:

My name is Maxwell Arnold - I was told that you are the webmaster for (company). I am just sending you an email as something that happened recently in the .ca world may be of interest to you...

Yesterday, in what is known as "To Be Released", the domain name --------------.ca was released to the public as a result of not being renewed, whether it was previously owned by you guys or someone else.


As I have regular involvement in the domain name community, and I invest in domain names, I recognized that this domain name was matching to -------------------'s trademark, so I placed a backorder on the name so as to prevent it from falling into the wrong hands. Cases in which domain name owners violate trademarks of legitimate businesses are positively rampant, and I want to do my part in preventing them from taking place.


While I had not made arrangements with you guys prior to this taking place to determine whether or not ------------.ca was of interest to you or not, I had the utmost certainty that it was, given the fact that you operate largely in Canada, and was an exact match for the .com domain you currently use, and people do tend to use .com and .ca somewhat interchangeably.


It securely entered my possession this morning, and in the event that you do, indeed, want the domain name, I would be more than willing to cooperate in making things work.


The registry prevents domain names from being transferred within 60 days of acquisition, so we would need to wait 60 days until it can be in --------------'s name, but I would be glad to keep it in my name and forward it your way in the mean time so that when somebody goes to --------------.ca, they land on the right website.


Just to be clear, I am not looking to sell you the domain name or otherwise profit off of it, though I would like to request I be reimbursed for my out-of-pocket expenses, which were about $15, which I have the invoice and receipt for.


If you could please let me know if you would be interested in proceeding with this, I would greatly appreciate it.

Their response:

Hi Maxwell,

We have never owned -------------.ca in fact most of our online customers are from the US.


We find there is more strength in .com.


Thanks for your interest but we are not interested in a .ca domain,

I am baffled beyond words.

As far as I am concerned, they have relinquished their rights to this domain name, trademark or no trademark.

And CIRA says .ca is catching on?

[Mike Cruz]

Their "webmaster" is quite clueless and neglectful. Whether or not the name is going to bring 1000 visitors or 1 visitor a month, it should still have some value to the company. It's an asset.

[Maxwell]

Their "webmaster" is quite clueless and neglectful. Whether or not the name is going to bring 1000 visitors or 1 visitor a month, it should still have some value to the company. It's an asset.

And the very fact that I laid out my own money to blindly defend their brand should be worth the $15 to them.

I'm saying this tongue in cheek right now, but I wouldn't sell them the domain name at this point even if they wanted me to. This makes their trademark meaningless to me, and quite unfortunately for them, some lessons must be learned the hard way.

On another note, a clothing manufacturer who I tried the same thing with has agreed to go along with it, as well as to send me some free stuff as a thanks for my honesty

[urlurl]

i did the same thing a little while ago - i noticed a nice semi-generic *****forum.com name expiring, when i googled it a found a company was using the .net version and the forum was very active. instead of buying it - i just emailed them to give them a heads up. they said they were not interested ?????????? a few weeks later they said they were interested in it and asked when they could get it. by then it dropped and someone else picked it up, lol

[Adam Dicker]

You can't say all of Canada is blind to .ca just because one company is stupid.

-=DCG=-

[David G]

It's amazing you would do all of that work and spend all that time on it, free of charge!

P.S. This is similar to offering a .US extension to the US based .com owner who may not be interested in it even if free.

[Gerry]

As far as I am concerned, they have relinquished their rights to this domain name, trademark or no trademark.

Bah. You know that is not the case.

---------- Post added at 11:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 AM ----------

I am baffled beyond words.

Maxwell, Maxwell, Maxwell...do you think by virtue of the fact that it is a company located in Canada they are obligated to buy and use the .ca?

Honestly, I am not baffled at all.

Based on the amount of mail I get a day (snail mail and email), after a while it all gets to the point of scammy and spammy.

You perhaps are following in the footsteps of another domainer (or domainer wannabe) who has offered the .co, .cn, .us, .org, .nl, .sa, and a horde of other 260 existing extensions - including .mobi.

I have no doubt that these businesses are fed up with people trying to sell them their name. A company should not feel compelled nor obligated to purchase every single tld for the sake of brand protection.

And, because of all the aforementioned scenarios, this is why I no longer spent time contacting end users or prospects...

[onlinestoreca]

I believe that some people are commenting from outside of Canada and don't quite understand the frequency and strength of .ca in Canada. I see it everywhere now and I believe it is the domain of choice for Canadian businesses. A .ca in Canada is not like a .net or .org, it is heavily advertised and you will lose customers if you don't have it.

For less than $100, even if 1% of their business is from Canada they should own the name. Unfortunately you have to reach someone that understands domain names AND has business/marketing sense which still seems to be uncommon, but is slowly getting better.

I have had terrible luck contacting webmasters about domain names. You would think they would be the first to understand but they don't seem to get the marketing aspect or they just don't give a crap about the company. They might make sure the website is great but won't care about how many or who gets there, that's not their problem it's the marketing department's problem.

[Gerry]

I believe that some people are commenting from outside of Canada and don't quite understand the frequency and strength of .ca in Canada.

It does not matter if a person is in or out of Canada. Why suddenly take it personal if a company rejects .ca or someone's offer to sell them the .ca. As everyone is quick to point out, dot com is king.

After years of trying to pound this into every living being's mind, suddenly they have to buy some thing else??? Because its a .ca? .co.uk?

It is domain fatigue. These businesses and individuals are tired of being battered on a daily basis by domainers trying to sell them something.

I have one business that is a TM and I got hundreds of emails trying to sell me the same (or variants) of the name. And then there was some Chinese company telling me on a daily basis what names were being regged (in China) utilizing my TM and that they could get those names for me to ensure that my brand was protected in China. Other than .cn, do you have any idea how many different url's China has?

So, if someone in Canada does not want to by their .ca, pat yourself on the back for doing such a good sales job in the past convincing companies that they had to have the dot com and no other.

[jaydub]

dot com is not king....content is king

[onlinestoreca]

I was just trying to point out that in Canada many people have now seen so much .ca and less .com that they may see an advertisement and try to get to the website by typing xxxxx.ca instead of xxxxx.com. You might lose a percentage of customers because you did not want to spend $15, is that very smart?

I don't know what it is like in other countries so I can't comment on other ccTLDs, but I do know what has happened here and maybe it is unique, don't know.

[jaydub]

I think the top ccTLD's that get their people's support (and have for some time) are .de and .co.uk with honorable mention to .au

Canada has been a little slow out of the gate but I think .CA is definitely on the rise in Canada...no doubt about it. It took a while but it is going well now.

[Maxwell]

It's amazing you would do all of that work and spend all that time on it, free of charge!

P.S. This is similar to offering a .US extension to the US based .com owner who may not be interested in it even if free.

Any Canadian domainer will agree with me that the two situations are not comparable. .ca has had a remarkable impact in this country, far greater than what .us may ever hope to attain.

With that in mind, .com/.ca ownership is absolutely vital for any Canadian business, especially one that is headquartered in Canada, and whose only retail locations are in Canada.

I understand that I am taking somewhat of a risk by taking the time and money to do this at no profit. However, trademark dilution is a serious issue, and I started doing this for two reasons...

a) to show that there are good, honest domainers out there who do recognize goodwill and aren't extortionists

b) to show that I am, indeed, part of this group of people, as some domains that I own are controversial (but by no means an outright violation of anyones trademark), and should those ever go into a dispute resolution, I want the frequently-used argument of "the registrant has engaged in a pattern of registering trademarked domains" to not apply to me, given the fact that I would go to this effort to defend someone else's trademark

---------- Post added at 07:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:02 PM ----------

You can't say all of Canada is blind to .ca just because one company is stupid.

-=DCG=-

Oh, of course not. But I certainly consider this to reflect on .ca's overall impact. I may rave about its phenomenal impact, but it's far from where it could be, IMO.

---------- Post added at 07:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:04 PM ----------

Bah. You know that is not the case.

If this ever went to a dispute, I would certainly use this against them, and bet my bottom dollar on the fact that this weakened their case, showing a disinterest in the domain name, and inherently, a piece of their trademark.

---------- Post added at 07:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:06 PM ----------

Maxwell, Maxwell, Maxwell...do you think by virtue of the fact that it is a company located in Canada they are obligated to buy and use the .ca?

Honestly, I am not baffled at all.

Based on the amount of mail I get a day (snail mail and email), after a while it all gets to the point of scammy and spammy.

You perhaps are following in the footsteps of another domainer (or domainer wannabe) who has offered the .co, .cn, .us, .org, .nl, .sa, and a horde of other 260 existing extensions - including .mobi.

I have no doubt that these businesses are fed up with people trying to sell them their name. A company should not feel compelled nor obligated to purchase every single tld for the sake of brand protection.

And, because of all the aforementioned scenarios, this is why I no longer spent time contacting end users or prospects...

I wouldn't doubt for a second that tons of registrars are trying to push every other gTLD and ccTLD out there to you.

However, you have to understand that .ca is different in Canada. I know this 100% for a fact.

They're certainly not obligated to do it, but the comparison I would make to this is a double-sided sandwich board sign with only one side printed. The company has gone to the expense and effort of putting a website together, but by owning only the .com, only those who would think to type .com get to see it.

Those on the other side of the sign are blind to it. At a minimal expense of just printing one more sign, the advertiser could benefit from full exposure, but by cheaping out or otherwise ignoring it, they lose the benefit.

The difference between me and these TLD hucksters is that I'm evidently an individual, and make it clear that I intend to make no profit off of this, and it is all in good faith. They should know it could have been worse (WAY worse) with a domainer who in bad faith is demanding a substantial sum of money from them.

[David G]

No doubt .ca is popular in Canada. However, Canadian domainers would appear to be at a big disadvantage vs gtlds what with the much smaller population and fact .ca can only be owned by those with a presense there. In addition, the .ca business owner would likely lose a percentage of their traffic to the .com owner who is likely not in Canada since many Canadians first think of .com from what I can tell and by talking to Canadian friends.

[Gerry]

I think the top ccTLD's that get their people's support (and have for some time) are .de and .co.uk with honorable mention to .au

...and the Dutch love their .nl

[jaydub]

yes they do and it has been a long standing love affair...forgot about that one...

...and the Dutch love their .nl

[hugegrowth]

nothing surprises me anymore in domains.

Good for you for trying, but what comes to mind is:

1 - I can't imagine finding the time to do stuff like that for free on a regular basis, for businesses and people I don't even know.

2 - It is just a one example of someone not having better knowledge of owning the .ca, ofcourse they should have taken it. I'm sure there are others with the same mindset, but not the majority.

[DomainsInc]

since many Canadians first think of .com from what I can tell and by talking to Canadian friends.

its been the exact opposite experience for me. if we want to find a canadian site we look for the .ca. the .com could just be the american version of the website as is the case for many brands, ebay, bestbuy, newegg, etc.

[urlurl]

i agree, if im looking for the Canadian version for a major company i include/use .ca, even when using search engines.

[TheLegendaryJP]

I wouldnt waste my time doing this.