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Wikipedia Labeling All Domainers as Cybersquatters
I want all domainers and those who enjoy domaining to know that a couple of mods at Wikipedia have taken it upon themselves to label all domainers as "cybersquatters".
It came to my attention a few days ago that anyone who types in "domaining" or "domainers" at Wikipedia is automatically redirected to their page on "cybersquatting". Doesn't that just piss you off? It does me.
I have tried, unsuccessfully thus far, to educate and enlighten them that domainers & domaining are a legitimate industry and that our members are upstanding people who are not defined by cybersquatting. I have asked them to stop the redirect to cybersquatting. They have refused.
Here is a link to my blog article, for more details: Wikipedia Fails Integrity Check
Here is a link to Domain Name Wire's article: Wikipedia Says Domainers Are Cybersquatters
Here is a link to the Wikipedia "discussion" page (to show abuse of power in action): Wikipedia Discussion
I don't know about you, but I don't appreciate being classified as a cybersquatter. Cybersquatting is a crime. Domaining is a respectable business activity.
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A person who tills the land is known as a farmer, a builder who builds on a land is known as a developer. Anyone hoarding land or property just sitting on it waiting for a ransom payday is a squatter, (domainers included) whether we like it or not.
Assume, someone buying half of California, simply sitting on its ownership awaiting to sell off for a price the buyer can afford. Not a great marketplace business model.
If the greater Internet community defines domainers as squatters, they have good reason to believe so. We can get defensive much as we want. And we can fight this perception all we want. But, things aren't going to change anytime soon.
I own a couple of thousands domain names. I can label myself what I want. But 99% of the online world will call me a squatter. And there is an element of truth in it. I am not the one to deny it. It is not illegal. But, perception rules.
Yes, why in the world , single keyword domains, if you type will mostly take you to a parking page.
2keyword domains mostly will take you to the mini-sites or parking page with some ppc campaign running covering 75% of the domains.
Then there are tm, ipr conflicting domains that makes in the other tlds/cctlds ..
Yes, if we see and talk about the volume, major chunk of domains registered are for these 3 reasons
More when I will reach home back from office .. 3 hrs!
This is an interesting topic to discuss,,, as it hurts when the views are tried to set on a community of which most are not part of it :(
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A squatter is defined as one who squats; specifically, one who settles unlawfully upon land without a title.
I don't believe those who own or rent land are classified as squatters. As in domain names, those who own...or in reality, rent domain names shouldn't be classified as squatters either.
H2FC,
You're right. But, in the last decade, the powers be have done little more than hype domain name values rather than organizing the industry to legitimacy.
Inspite of these huge sales publicity, how many of the masses are inspired to do Domaining as an occupation? How many trade shows and seminars are conducted to rally the uninitiated to become Domainers? Zero!
Credibility of any industry comes from the masses accepting a set of business practices as common place in career and occupation. Take the noise created by us domainers and you will see and even hear the deafening silence about domain names.
No one (besides domainers and that occasional buyer) cares really.
Till the time the leading domain registration companies come forward and suppport the community , we willl only be hearing and taking things under the belt.
Talk about any industry, and they have a group, union, association, something that exist and talks for their community
I am not aware if anything exist for the domainers..
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Envy at it's best.
Basically those communistic geeks with inferiority complexes who are mostly responsible for editting Wikipedia contradict themselves, because
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squatting
"Squatting is the act of occupying an abandoned or unoccupied space or building, usually residential, that the squatter does not own, rent or otherwise have permission to use."
But we own/rent all our domain names...there is impossible to "squat" a domain name. In some sense Verizon is squatting unregistered domain names serving there their own landing page.
I have PM disabled. You can email me: denny startseek com
ThankYouDHL.com
Agree 100%.Originally Posted by denny007
This is the truth.
I can't add more to it. I agree with you.
Wow, Chris. What a defeatist attitude. We've never spoken I know, and I do respect your right to your view. Please let me respond to your perceptions.
Investing in one, or many, domain names is not illegal. You and I are completely within our rights to do so. You seem to perceive what you are doing as somehow abusive or unfair. I assume you do not infringe on trademarks, but registered generic domain names.
Chris, it is exactly what investors have been doing for decades in the real estate market, in the commodities market, and when they buy additional shares of a stock that has been performing well. They buy cheap, sell high, and accumulate holdings in their portfolio which they hope will grow in value. It's what car dealerships do when they add to their inventory. It's very basic capitalism with no strange twists or caveats. It's not sort of the same, it's EXACTLY the same as every other investment medium that has risen to popularity and/or been in existence for years.
To me, it seems that you have bought in to someone else's ire because they are very simply envious. Chris, rich people are often hated because they are wealthy ... which is a moronic, but prevalent attitude. Most hateful critics have no conception how hard most (or at least many) wealthy people work in order to have what they have. They take risks that no one else will take. They work 80 hours per week when no one else will do it. They make sacrifices and defer self-indulgences in order to increase their capital investment opportunity in ventures that will pay off. They obtain deep levels of education while many others choose an easy path of least resistance that requires little or no effort.
So your assessment that domain investors are unworthy, or should accept the mean-spirited indictment of lazy/envious people, I find pretty odd.
Will there always be jealous critics? Of course. But there is a huge difference between buying into their distorted views. Domainers are investing enormous time in development, partnerships and spending life savings to elevate the value of their holdings. For example, I have spent 6 weeks building two sites at night line-by-line (tedious code) when I get off of work from a full time job. I work constantly as do many other domain investors.
What about the Castello brothers with PalmSprings.com, Ron Jackson of DNJournal, Andrew Alleman of DomainNameWire, Skip Hoagland of Atlanta.com, Sahar Sarid of Bido.com, Rob Grant of Adirondacks.com, Elliot Silver of Burbank.com, Rick Latona with aeiou.com, Boulevards New Media with their massive network & portfolio, InternetRealEstate.com with their immense network of developed domains, the list goes on and on.
All of these professionals work their asses off and they are all domainers. How is what they are doing wrong? I hope you get my point. Don't let jerks define you. First, understand that your investment in domains is not wrong ... whatever someone else's opinion.
Thanks for the discussion.
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You put more words in my mouth than I uttered, Carlton.
If I thought investing in domains was wrong I wouldn't be making a killing with my portfolio. I do this 18 hours a day cause I love it. When was the last time a domainer got arrested for registering a name? You need to go back to my statements. They were limited and specific in references and did not touch any of the questions you bought up.
Ecomindia, you said it right. But, I will go one step further. Any industry to be legitimatized needs to create jobs. Domainers do not create jobs. A few successful domainers may hire staff for their company. They may outsource and use freelance work. But, what I am specifically alluding to is that the domain industry as a means to an industry does not create structured and mass accepted or much needed jobs.
Hell, most domainers (I presume) never even pay taxes on their domain sales. It is merely not enough to look up to successful domainers. Their success has done nothing to structure this industry into a legitimate, licensed, job creating, a career enhancing industry.
Until that happens, it will be an insular industry with a few who manage to do things right and the rest chasing their dreams.
NOTE : Wikipedia's reference to Domainers being CS is plain ignorant. I am going to myself personally email Jimbo to correct this ignorance. Just goes to make WP look bad.
Last edited by nameadvertising.com; 08-01-2009 at 10:32 AM.
I've been saying it for a long time but the domaining community, at best, is a confederacy (a "loose" union of entities - aligned by a common purpose). This mainstream attitude will not change until some of the major players will step up and help us.
The government and the media (print and virtual) are against domainers because of the black mark left on the community form the 1990s before cybersquatting laws came into effect. No one has ever stood up to say any different - the community just took it and many people thought "well, it's not me they're after so I'll just stick to my own little game".
The sad part is that no one, and I really mean no one, has stepped up to the plate to combat this stereotype yet the opposition has some big wigs with very loud voices and politicians in their pockets (Snowe Bill anyone?). Do you want proof that no one wants to step up to the plate?
http://www.dnforum.com/f254/florida-...ad-364875.html
Bill Nelson was one of the co-sponsors of the Snowe Bill yet how many people do you see wanted to go up against him or even try to take the vacant seat? How many people even posted that we should do something? HOW MANY?
I'll give you a hint - it's ZERO.
Personally this pisses me off. I hear people whining about being labeled as cybersquatters yet very little is being done about it. Oh boy, a discussion on wikipedia. I bet they're shaking in their boots now! (Not).
If anyone is going to fight this is has to be us. Registrars won't care because they still make a killing in registration and renewal fees - TM or not. Parking companies aren't going to fight it because they make a lot of money from TM based domains that are parked with their services. ICANN won't do anything because they are still raking in the fees from these domains, no matter who they are registered with. WIPO won't do anythng (in fact, I can easily see them doing the opposite) since they pocket a big chunk of change with each complaint (which is hugely favored towards the complainant). The government won't do anything because our elected "officials" are more interested in getting endorsements and "donations" from out of state (and country) large companies as opposed to supporing the people who put them in office and doing what they were HIRED to do. No one, not a single entity, is willing to help us. Yes, they are able to but they don't want to.
We're the losers in this fight.
Say I owned Windows.com and used it to sell stained glass (100% legal - not TM). I put on my site that we use computer programs to make sure they are as high quality as they can be - now MS has a right to sue me for the domain and all the money they claim that they lost.
Say I owned Laptops.com and had a large business based on it selling, supporting, and reviewing lapotps. With the Snowe Bill - Dell would be in the right to not only take the name (and the business) but everything I own and put me on the streets just so they can have the domain - and the results of my years of hard work.
The media won't do anything because they are too busy promoting their own propoganda and they all love having someone to bash when they have nothing else to report on.
Society is extremely hyporitical when it comes to this. If I bought a stock when it was in the gutter and sold it at a huge profit - I am a wise investor. If I bought up tons of land in the Florida keys back in the 60's and 70's and sold it in the 90's and 2000's at over 10,000% profit - I was a very wise real estate investor. If I buy a car from a jumk yard for $100 and fix it up and then sell it for $5,000 - I was a good mechanic and a good businessman. If I buy a trinket at a yard sale for $5 and then turn around and sellit for a collector for $10,000, I had a good eye. Even the gasoline speculators that made the price of gas skyrocket just to pad their own wallets were "savvy investors" while the rest of us suffered. YET, if I register an avaialble domain name for $7 and someone offers to buy it form me for $500, I'm a cybersquatter. If that's not hypocritical, then I don't know what it is.
Last edited by draggar; 08-01-2009 at 10:40 AM.
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Oh man Ed, May I have permission to use your post on my blog? Do I need DCG's permission as well, since this is posted on DNF?
Ed, Now you know why I have little to no respect for those so called successful domainers. They have done nothing to make an impression on the domaining industry other than bark values and show how foresightful they were and hold a few expensive get together, which pretty much you can find examples of which in every god damn industry.
I strongly feel, it is in the interest of the big registrars to create domaining as career of choice, as a means to a business opportunity. It will only enhance their business and create a sense of legitimacy to domaning.
Until the day we see a seminar in New York city on "How to be a domainer?" and tons of folks signing up, we will be in the shadows. It matters little how many domains Mr X sold for at a gazillion dollars. The masses just do not care. I have shown DNJ sales to many folks I know. They show amazement and then go back to what they are doing. Until the masses care, a few bad elements will always label us as Cybersquatters.
Last edited by nameadvertising.com; 08-01-2009 at 11:03 AM.
As a long time Wikipedia fan, this also disgusts me.
Reference.com seems to offer a far more accurate and balanced view http://www.reference.com/browse/Domainers
- Rob
The laws on ownership were codified a long time ago...
The laws on ownership were codified a long time ago (Code of Hammurabi, The Talmud, The Brits, and finally, the Yanks).
With a few exceptions (Bullshevik Russia, Nazi Germany, Red China) the world relies on these old ownership concepts.
Huh ? Domainers are self-employed people, like there are many if not most webmasters that are self-employed. They create their own jobs.
An industry is not more ethical/respectable just because it 'creates' employment.
Well said.
Anyway, we do create jobs... think of all those businesses/services that are linked to domaining, drop catching, registrars, auctions, events etc.
- Rob
Last edited by Leading Names; 08-01-2009 at 11:38 AM.
sigh!
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I have nothing against the big players except the fact that it looks like they aren't doing much to help protect the industry's image. Good for them for getting in early enough and being able to register the sex.com's, cars.com, and many other generics. They saw a big trend coming and jumped on it before anyone else did.
The sad truth is that they can protect themselves - they can afford a good defense from attorneys like John Berryhill who knows the industry well enough to give great defenses. How many of us would have to surrender their domains at the first sign of a legal suit because we can't afford a good defense (yes, I've been there). It's the little people (the vast majority of domainers and web developers - yes, I think they're at risk, too) who suffer.
In fact, I take back calling the industry a confederacy. It's very similar to feudal England. (War)Lords hoarding over the best lands and resources for themselves while allowing us little tidbits here and there to make us feel we're a part of it all while only fueling their own money machines.
I own many .orgs, .nets, and .us domains (I'm only talking about developed sites, BTW_ and it pains me to know for a fact that some traffic that is meant for me ends up at a parked .com where someone else is making money of of my work. But I also know that I got into it later than I should have. I shoudl have started a few years earler when my wife became friends with someone who is a medium sized player (compared ot the whole picture) in the community. I could easily have a few extra years behind my belt and looking at the registration dates at some of the domains I'd love to have - I could have gotten them. (Yeah, and I wish I traded my company stock for Ford stock back in Feb where I would have ended up with about 150-200 shares of Ford as opposed to the 45 shares I could afford back in June).Sadly, hindsight is always 20-20, or better.
We (the little people) would have to make the changes but the sacrafices we'd have to make would either be too much or not even be enough to make the people who influence the industry bat an eye lash at what we're doing. We're stuck with this stereotype and all we can do is educate people.
What I have to laugh (hysterically) at is that the biggest complainers are also the biggest supporters of this. What companies file the most WIPOs? Dell, Microsoft, Apple, and Google. Change your parked pages keywords to computer related and who are the most common hits? Dell, Microsoft, Apple, and Google. they complain about cyber-squatting yet support it by fueling the ad feeds that they rely on.
Yet people line up for blocks to hear about the latest Ponzi scheme, real estate scam, or other investment strategy (yes, some are legit) that require thousands to tens of thousands of dollars to start (and no one wants to start in the virtual real estate for a meager $7 a year).I strongly feel, it is in the interest of the big registrars to create domaining as career of choice, as a means to a business opportunity. It will only enhance their business and create a sense of legitimacy to domaning.
Until the day we see a seminar in New York city on "How to be a domainer?" and tons of folks signing up, we will be in the shadows. It matters little how many domains Mr X sold for at a gazillion dollars. The masses just do not care. I have shown DNJ sales to many folks I know. They show amazement and then go back to what they are doing. Until the masses care, a few bad elements will always label us as Cybersquatters.
As a reminder - statements I make may not reflect the views of DNForum.com or its management - they are my own (yes, I am a thinking human).
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Am I the only one who is not convinced this would be a good thing?
More is not always better....
Bigger is not always better....
and Competition is not always better......imho
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