Registering a .ca for a non-resident?

[Maxwell]

Let me give you the following scenario;

Bob forms Bob Inc. in Ontario.

Joe of Joe Inc. in Idaho wishes to own a .ca domain, but does not meet the presence requirements.

Bob, being a good friend of Joe's, registers Example.ca under Bob Inc.

He then, under Joe's instructions, redirects example.ca to resolve to the regular Joe Inc. website, which is a .com.

Joe Inc. promotes the site in an advertising campaign in Canada, but WHOIS records show Bob Inc. as the owner.

Have any rules been broken in the above scenario?

If not, would Bob Inc. "leasing" the name to Joe Inc. for $12/year (just to cover registration costs, give or take a few bucks) cause either party to be in contravention of CIRA regulations?

Update: Section 4.1 g of the Registration Agreement appears to stipulate something which might perhaps restrict the above scenario. Would appreciate opinions regardless.

Update #2: An exception to 4.1 g is if the third party is an affiliate of the registrant. Does that mean that Bob Inc. could make Joe Inc. an affiliate of Bob Inc. for purposes of utilization of a .ca domain name? I.e. with an agreement to the effect of, "I, Bob, acting in my capacity as sole director of Bob Inc., hereby indefinitely appoint Joe Inc. as an affiliate of Bob Inc."?

With that in mind, affiliate agreements are casually created all the time in cases such as affiliate sales. Is there any reason why it would apply differently here?

[katherine]

Nice catch on the section 4.1g. As you point out, it appears to prevent the very situation of non-qualifying parties operating .ca domains.
Now it's widely known that some registrars provide a trustee service. I guess Cira turns a blind eye as long as it's done on a low scale and quietly.

[jaydub]

You know...the thing I really worry about with "leasing" or representing is that the domain stays in your name and if the person/party you lease or represent does anything illegal or starts spam mailing (even innocently) you as the owner of the name are the one that takes the legal hit. Tread carefully...

[Maxwell]

You know...the thing I really worry about with "leasing" or representing is that the domain stays in your name and if the person/party you lease or represent does anything illegal or starts spam mailing (even innocently) you as the owner of the name are the one that takes the legal hit. Tread carefully...

Nice one! Good call, Jaydub.

Would a waiver to the effect of "I, Joe, as sole director of Joe Inc., hereby agree that as an affiliate of Bob Inc., I absolve Bob Inc. of any damages, liability, or any burden which might result from Joe Inc.'s misuse of the domain name "example.ca", which they are providing to me as a part of this affiliate agreement." do the trick, do you think?

Your answer will not be taken as legal advice.

[jaydub]

LOL..it's a good thing

Your answer will not be taken as legal advice.

I am sure that there is some sort of agreement that may be able to be drawn up regarding leasing a domain but not being a legal eagle I wouldn't assume to post anything. I posted only to give people thinking to lease something to consider prior to doing so.
Perhaps an agreement of this type exists for public use already....but I don't know of one.

Cheers
Jim

[msn]

Since we actually do lease domains this is our position: if you lease a domain to someone, that person or entity must qualify under CIRA Rules and CIRA Policy to be a qualified registrant. We check government-provided identification and sign a proper lease agreement which stipulates they must qualify under the various stipulations CIRA sets.

Of course some registrars have actually facilitated getting around CIRA policy, which should be very troubling, given that they are to uphold the policy, and then we have the likes of CSC and MarkMonitor, which is just about the biggest of the rule-benders in the .ca space.

[Maxwell]

Since we actually do lease domains this is our position: if you lease a domain to someone, that person or entity must qualify under CIRA Rules and CIRA Policy to be a qualified registrant. We check government-provided identification and sign a proper lease agreement which stipulates they must qualify under the various stipulations CIRA sets.

Of course some registrars have actually facilitated getting around CIRA policy, which should be very troubling, given that they are to uphold the policy, and then we have the likes of CSC and MarkMonitor, which is just about the biggest of the rule-benders in the .ca space.

MSN, what if a US company were to approach you to attempt to lease a name, proposing that they become an "affiliate" of your company? Which, in reality, is for the sole purpose of fulfilling one of the exceptions to 4.1 g, as I had stated in update #2 in my original post.

[msn]

If it would really be worthwhile for them to be present in the market in Canada then do it right and set up a Canadian subsidiary company which holds that domain name, or register a trade mark and then the domain associated with the CIPO registration number.

[DropWizard.com]

I noticed that section on the last agreement update. I don't believe it was present before (I could be wrong). But it seems pretty clear that in not acting as an agent for anyone not meeting the residency requirement. I consider it one more example of their un-businesslike attitude that prevents innovation and new products. EG leasing domains

Given that these terms are draconian in nature and imposed upon us without recourse (other than cancelling all your domains) I'm not sure a court would allow it. But who needs the legal battles.

Leasing a domain, under the current rules I think would violate 3.2

"The Registrant shall not in
any way transfer or purport to transfer a proprietary right in any Domain Name
Registration or grant or purport to grant as security or in any other manner encumber or
purport to encumber any Domain Name Registration."

And we've probably all violated this one by now.

"not engage in any direct or indirect activity which, in CIRA’s reasonable
opinion, is designed to bring, or may bring, the Registry into disrepute, is
designed to interfere, or may interfere, with CIRA’s operations or is
designed to expose, or may expose, CIRA to prosecution or to legal action
by the Registrant or a third party;"

[fwdtech]

So, does 4.1(d) mean that the registrant of this thread ( http://www.dnforum.com/f510/domain-ownership-question-someone-wants-their-domain-back-thread-452202.html ) should have reported the email to CIRA?

[Maxwell]

So, does 4.1(d) mean that the registrant of this thread ( http://www.dnforum.com/f510/domain-ownership-question-someone-wants-their-domain-back-thread-452202.html ) should have reported the email to CIRA?

If it was threatening action, then yes, it is the duty of the registrant (since he DID read what he agreed to, right?) to inform CIRA of such.

However, I read the email, and it was nothing more than an inquiry. No threats or claims were made, thus relieving him of his obligation to inform CIRA.

[ImageAuthors]

Hi. I just found this thread, and it seems that everyone commenting above is relatively knowledgeable and serious. So I'll ask a question here, in case any of you has a recommendation.

I'm a USA resident who has been salivating for awhile with all those good .ca domains sitting under his nose. A few days ago, in spite of myself, I snagged what I'd consider a decent .ca domain. And now I find myself without any contact information to supply Pool.com. Pretty rash, I suppose. Does anybody have any advice? I'm open to keeping the .ca domain, if possible, or even selling the rights to it to a legitimate Canadian. Or perhaps I'll simply have to drop the domain and admit to being foolish.

[katherine]

Have you ever considered incorporating in Canada ? Then you can pick all the .ca you want.

[ImageAuthors]

It's that easy? Honestly, I've never incorporated anywhere. Does Canada have stringent requirements, steep fees, or a long wait period? (I should probably just look that up myself.)

[DropWizard.com]

Incorporation in Canada does require a local officer & director. You can incorporate but you'd need to work with someone. I believe the corporation must also be owned at least 50% canadian (shareholding) to qualify under CIRA. The other ave is to file for a TM but that is expensive on a per domain basis.

Good old CIRA it just keeps building brick walls higher and higher to keep out the world and innovation!

[msn]

Good old CIRA it just keeps building brick walls higher and higher to keep out the world and innovation!

CIRA does enough harm but this aspect is not part of it.

If anyone, anywhere, could register any ccTLD, then why have any ccTLDs at all? Why not just have one TLD for everything?

The problem has been the chase for keywords and to use any TLD with the popular keywords to try to turn a buck. Look at how many English language .de domains there are and you will see the best example, but for .ca it makes sense to have a namespace which is just for Canada. Your, and our, desire to achieve the highest possible price by having a bigger pool of buyers is not necessarily consistent with that goal of having a region in the Internet reserved for Canadians.

[DropWizard.com]

Why not just have one TLD for everything?.

I'm with you on that let's put in an application. .everything .... very very catchy

The problem has been the chase for keywords and to use any TLD with the popular keywords to try to turn a buck. Look at how many English language .de domains there are and you will see the best example, but for .ca it makes sense to have a namespace which is just for Canada. Your, and our, desire to achieve the highest possible price by having a bigger pool of buyers is not necessarily consistent with that goal of having a region in the Internet reserved for Canadians.

Unfortunately having walls like that are responsible for our lack of choice in TV, cell phones, internet, banking and a host of other industries and the resulting high costs we pay. We don't need protectionism just opportunity.

[ImageAuthors]

... for .ca it makes sense to have a namespace which is just for Canada. Your, and our, desire to achieve the highest possible price by having a bigger pool of buyers is not necessarily consistent with that goal of having a region in the Internet reserved for Canadians.

Agreed. Even though it's tempting for American speculators like myself to get involved, such involvement (i.e. influx of capital) would raise the overall cost of domains for Canadians. Still, given the way search technology is moving toward more emphasis on locale, it is hard to sit back and watch the Canadian perception of an international organization or topic be determined entirely by Canadian domain owners.

It's a tough balance for CIRA, I'm sure. As one of the greedy Americans who should probably be kept out but ultimately won't be, I can appreciate their position.

[katherine]

.us is restricted too, not as much as .ca but the difference is that .us remains unpopular.
In fact it appears that .ca now has more registrations than .us. The US should be ashamed of being the only large country that shuns its own extension.
Not surprising that Americans are tempted to dabble in .ca domains instead