Change is coming soon... Spring Cleaning Time!

[Focus]

If you make people pay F$ to post anything for sale you have to ensure they continue to earn F$ by posting, BUT you don't really make money because you are giving them the F$ free that they pay back to the site for the post so it's a big wash, if your aim is to make this forum more profitable then a very small % on sales in auction form (live?) would do wonders, also the recurring membership was always something I thought would work in the financial favor of DNF, but if people are gonna pay they better be able to post without paying twice. Just my opinion..

[Gerry]

In addition to the rest of the stuff going on ... many people don't post freely because everything said here gets indexed.

Makes it a real pain to be involved in a sale and have a buyer pull up posts from here that may have stated lower prices or info from a year or 2 before.

I'm not sure if anything has changed inregards to this but I have really cut back posting because of it. Its just added headache.

Whats posted on this board should stay on this board ... not in the search engines. It can be done easily and would be a great courtesy to members.

( btw ... I know anyone can sign up as a member and pass on info .. but why make the corp lawyers jobs easier? )

I hadn't thought of that but it is so true having personally seen it myself...even with some of my OLD, OLD domains.

How can it be regulated once it is posted?

[izoot]

I hadn't thought of that but it is so true having personally seen it myself...even with some of my OLD, OLD domains.

How can it be regulated once it is posted?

I've been around from near the beginning of this place and have run across pages in google showing old sale threads from back then.

Its a problem not just from the sales point of view but the legal as well ... from names you may have wanted sell back then and decided instead to keep. Then years later to have it produced as proof of "bad faith"/intent to sell by some idiot trying to bully ya out of a name.

I know of a few boards that don't allow the SE's to dig around so it can be done. I think it was originally left on for just saturating the SE's with pages but no need for that anymore as far as I can see DNF is pretty well known.

but just my 2¢

zoot

[dnalias]

paying to post?

ultimately those who post domains that are sub-par (not saleable) move on from dnf or rethink their strategy. simply because posting becomes a waist of time for them also. there is no rational person who will continuously post sales threads if they are not getting any results.

ultimately a paid to post system will heart the people with saleable domains.
if a paid system does get implemented the only, and to me, obvious outcome within a certain period of time, is a bump up in the listing price and the addition of fees to other areas of the forum.

remember that prices never go down, but only go up

[Creature]

paying to post?

ultimately those who post domains that are sub-par (not saleable) move on from dnf or rethink their strategy. simply because posting becomes a waist of time for them also. there is no rational person who will continuously post sales threads if they are not getting any results.

ultimately a paid to post system will heart the people with saleable domains.
if a paid system does get implemented the only, and to me, obvious outcome within a certain period of time, is a bump up in the listing price and the addition of fees to other areas of the forum.

remember that prices never go down, but only go up

Difficult to know what is 'sub-par' when you see names like glassfountains(.)com sell at the Traffic auction (congrats RaiderGirl). Who would decide if your names are not good enough? Anyway your request to pay more money seems wrong, like writing to the government to ask for a tax rise.

[Dale Hubbard]

...there is no rational person who will continuously post sales threads if they are not getting any results.

There are plenty of them - rational and irrational. That's the problem.

[StockDoctor]

You might as well apply for membership at Rick's forum.

What? I had joined Rick's forum a couple years back. Your missing the point anyway. A Top Tier forum here at DNF wouldn't be that tough to establish. Sure, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and some name like Goblah.com might sell for $700k, but there are also characteristics or measurements/stats that enable most experienced domainers to recognize quality right off. Also, the forum could serve to educate n00bs as to what is considered premium other than that labeling being applied to every crap name for sale by some.

[Honan]

Yes, always censorship works well in all it's forms
Just look at the marvelous work done on the internet by some well known central committees
Perhaps the DnForum could follow their lead and silence anybody at all with a differing point of view
Those trouble makers have no right to interfere with our pursuit of the dollar
A committee could be formed to examine member's portfolios and banish those members whose domains are deemed to be crappy
And the idea of writing to da boss to pop your top offenders list is to be applauded
We need more of this "dob in your mates" attitude amongst domainers
It might cut down the competition, and leave more room for those with really nice names
I am making my list of offenders right now and can't wait to send it in private to dcg.

[Beachie]

Yes, always censorship works well in all it's forms
Just look at the marvelous work done on the internet by some well known central committees
Perhaps the DnForum could follow their lead and silence anybody at all with a differing point of view
Those trouble makers have no right to interfere with our pursuit of the dollar
A committee could be formed to examine member's portfolios and banish those members whose domains are deemed to be crappy
And the idea of writing to da boss to pop your top offenders list is to be applauded
We need more of this "dob in your mates" attitude amongst domainers
It might cut down the competition, and leave more room for those with really nice names
I am making my list of offenders right now and can't wait to send it in private to dcg.

People can have different opinions - we just don't want personal attacks on people BECAUSE of those opinions.

We're also not going to ban people just because someone "dobs" them in. We'll go through the list, and if the same people keep appearing we'll investigate if there is a case to ban them.

See the difference? What we don't need is exactly this kind of over-reacting and trying to stir up an otherwise civilized discussion in an attempt to coax an argument. It's obvious we're not going to just randomly ban people. It's obvious why we're doing it, but you feel the need to make it seem like a huge conspiracy. The bottom line is the admins are tired of this crap.

[afloat.com]

Perhaps the DnForum could follow their lead and silence anybody at all with a differing point of view

I think this is a valid point. As long as it is still ok to attack the argument (but not the person), then there will still be free speech, I hope.
(As the rule has always been).

So what exactly will be changing in this respect needs to be clarified.

[Duke]

I think this is a valid point. As long as it is still ok to attack the argument (but not the person), then there will still be free speech, I hope.
(As the rule has always been).

So what exactly will be changing in this respect needs to be clarified.

The problem here has not been people attacking the argument, it has been trolls, thugs and character assassins running loose attacking people who not only haven't started an argument - in many cases they haven't even posted in the thread they are being attacked in! No one wants to spend time in that kind of environment. It is the number 1 killer of forums and IMO it is great to see that the mudslingers who contribute nothing to anyone are going to be shown the door. There is an old saying - those who can do, those who can't criticize. Nothing wrong with constructive criticism from sources that know what they are talking about, but in most cases here the bombs have been thrown by hoodlums or jealous people who have never accomplished anything on their own and deeply resent those who have. The only way they can make a name for themselves is to get attention any way they can, even if it means standing in the middle of a crowd pissing on the carpet. Enough is enough already.

[GeorgeK]

Valid criticism should always be welcome. Trying to hide the truth and facts via censorship never works. The strengths of arguments should be evident as more posting is done, not less. The issue of censorship has already been discussed in the past at the thread:

http://www.dnforum.com/f77/dnforum-censorship-professionalism-thread-83401.html

If DNForum lost its "critics," I can just imagine what the conversation will be like. No more attacking VeriSign for raising .com prices. No more criticizing ICANN for boneheaded policy choices. No more attacking cybersquatters for bringing this industry into disrepute. Oh no, these are "bombs", and we should all be jealous of those successful cybersquatters who are making the cash and laughing at people behind our backs.

You can already see the "chill" on this forum taking shape. I posted a topic about iREIT and cybersquatting in the legal section yesterday at:

http://www.dnforum.com/f26/verizon-vs-ireit-et-al-court-documents-thread-221235.html

and on two other forums at roughly the same time. In those two other forums, there were more than 10 replies on each forum. Are folks now too scared on DNForum to address controversial matters? Looks like it.

If folks want to impose their beliefs as to what constitutes a "bomb" or "jealousy" or "thugs", without letting the natural course of debate take place, DNForum will definitely lose its luster, and the intelligent people will simply stop bothering to post at all. Suggesting that folks on DNForum aren't smart enough to be able to weigh the pros and cons of an argument, and decide for themselves based on the posts (i.e. more speech, not less) does not give them a lot of credit.

A DNForum without those intelligent people is not a forum worth visiting, and few folks will be willing to pay for it. You can see this on TV. In the past, you'd have "family" oriented language on network TV, and cable TV shows on HBO, etc. like The Sopranos changed everything. Now you see network TV scrambling to learn from a lot of those lessons. The #1 news network is FOX News, not the Christian Science Monitor.

If DNForum wants to be the Disney channel or Nickelodeon, I think many will turn the dial and switch to HBO, Showtime and FOX News.

[dadster]

So, anyone with a platinum or gold membership will have to suscribe each and every year? Seeing as the rules have now changed, what will the cost be? Not too sure I am fond of the subscription model. If the change is to keep out the 'riff-raff' keep in mind that having scads of dough does not mean that a person is not a trouble maker or riff-raff.

Regarding paying to make a post - I don't like it. It accomplishes nothing. You will still have people who are looking for domains and never buy. You will stil have people frustrated in replying to these 'want ads' because the potential buyer does not know how or refuses to give an specifications or is nebulous regarding wha they want. Why not just set the groundrules for posting - no specs or shoddy specs and your 'want ad' gets yanked? This would be a much better deterent than charging for an post.

I think a better job of policing will accomplish much more than creating an elite club. After all that is what the moderators and administrators are paid for, is it not?

So, I am looking forward to the changes and hope they are to the benefit of all of the rank and file members here at DNForum.

All the best,

Frank (Dadster)

[Adam Dicker]

Valid criticism should always be welcome. Trying to hide the truth and facts via censorship never works. The strengths of arguments should be evident as more posting is done, not less. The issue of censorship has already been discussed in the past at the thread:

http://www.dnforum.com/showthread.php?t=83401

If DNForum lost its "critics," I can just imagine what the conversation will be like. No more attacking VeriSign for raising .com prices. No more criticizing ICANN for boneheaded policy choices. No more attacking cybersquatters for bringing this industry into disrepute. Oh no, these are "bombs", and we should all be jealous of those successful cybersquatters who are making the cash and laughing at people behind our backs.

You can already see the "chill" on this forum taking shape. I posted a topic about iREIT and cybersquatting in the legal section yesterday at:

http://www.dnforum.com/showthread.php?t=221235

and on two other forums at roughly the same time. In those two other forums, there were more than 10 replies on each forum. Are folks now too scared on DNForum to address controversial matters? Looks like it.

If folks want to impose their beliefs as to what constitutes a "bomb" or "jealousy" or "thugs", without letting the natural course of debate take place, DNForum will definitely lose its luster, and the intelligent people will simply stop bothering to post at all. Suggesting that folks on DNForum aren't smart enough to be able to weigh the pros and cons of an argument, and decide for themselves based on the posts (i.e. more speech, not less) does not give them a lot of credit.

A DNForum without those intelligent people is not a forum worth visiting, and few folks will be willing to pay for it. You can see this on TV. In the past, you'd have "family" oriented language on network TV, and cable TV shows on HBO, etc. like The Sopranos changed everything. Now you see network TV scrambling to learn from a lot of those lessons. The #1 news network is FOX News, not the Christian Science Monitor.

If DNForum wants to be the Disney channel or Nickelodeon, I think many will turn the dial and switch to HBO, Showtime and FOX News.

I have no issues with either thread being posted, nor do I have issues with opinions, I just don't want personal attacks, going after someone for a legitimate point will always be allowed. There will no concequences for posting in the thread about iREIT, I welcome all opinions and this is a topic that will surely change our industry.

-=DCG=-

[Adam Dicker]

Valid criticism should always be welcome. Trying to hide the truth and facts via censorship never works. The strengths of arguments should be evident as more posting is done, not less.

To make it clear as George put it...

I agree fully with this statement!

-=DCG=-

[GeorgeK]

I have no issues with either thread being posted, nor do I have issues with opinions, I just don't want personal attacks, going after someone for a legitinate point will always be allowed.

-=DCG=-

I agree. However, it begs the question then as to why Domainscot's recent thread was removed in its entirety (which had links to various unbiased blog posts about the relevant matter of people being "banned" for legitimate protest). If there was one or two posts in it that went over the line, then those posts should have been edited accordingly (and an opportunity provided for people to justify their posts), however in my opinion a lot of informed and intelligent debate was lost by that thread being removed in its entirety.

I've posted about Rick Schwartz' multiple UDRP losses and *****.com C&D's, etc. in the past. Are those now classified as "bombs", and I (or anyone else) should fear being banned for bringing up controversial topics? The target of those topics might choose not to defend themselves because their behaviour is indefensible -- they should not see those topics be censored just by whispering into a moderator's ear that the posts are driven by "jealousy" or some "hidden agenda." Let there be more speech, and let the intelligent viewers make up their own mind. We're not all sheep here, and some folks fear that informed debate.

It's ironic I posted that "V for Vendetta" video clip which talked about censorship, and that entire thread is now censored.

Here it is again, and give it some thought:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TLD3Z6sJWA

Good evening, London. Allow me first to apologize for this interruption. I do, like many of you, appreciate the comforts of every day routine- the security of the familiar, the tranquility of repetition. I enjoy them as much as any bloke. But in the spirit of commemoration, thereby those important events of the past usually associated with someone's death or the end of some awful bloody struggle, a celebration of a nice holiday, I thought we could mark this November the 5th, a day that is sadly no longer remembered, by taking some time out of our daily lives to sit down and have a little chat. There are of course those who do not want us to speak. I suspect even now, orders are being shouted into telephones, and men with guns will soon be on their way. Why? Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic you turned to the now high chancellor, Adam Sutler. He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent. Last night I sought to end that silence. Last night I destroyed the Old Bailey, to remind this country of what it has forgotten. More than four hundred years ago a great citizen wished to embed the fifth of November forever in our memory. His hope was to remind the world that fairness, justice, and freedom are more than words, they are perspectives. So if you've seen nothing, if the crimes of this government remain unknown to you then I would suggest you allow the fifth of November to pass unmarked. But if you see what I see, if you feel as I feel, and if you would seek as I seek, then I ask you to stand beside me one year from tonight, outside the gates of Parliament, and together we shall give them a fifth of November that shall never, ever be forgot. -- V, from "V for Vendetta"

[Adam Dicker]

Please inform me directly the next time this happens and it will be dealt with accordingly. Please also feel free to PM m any threads that should have remained open without personal attacks and I can try and find them.

-=DCG=-

[Adam Dicker]

George,

We can only move forward at this point not backwards, so keep me informed should a string get closed tha shouldn't.... here's my cell 416-884-0535

-=DCG=-

[Acro]

Yikes now 16,000 people have the cellphone number.

[GeorgeK]

PM sent.