To all anti-war protestors

**britishangel** · 03-23-2003, 01:52 AM

Please take a moment if you haven't already to watch the 3rd eye blind video "when i'm gone" I realize you're upset that we went to war and i'm not saying you're wrong but i'm saying if these men are prepared to give up their lives for something that they believe is better for us, if they are prepared to leave behind everything they love with a possibility that they'll never come back then we should respect that. We should support our troops of men and women who have enough guts to do something that would terrify the rest of us because they believe it's right. I don't care if you agree with war or not we should respect these men and women's choices to defend what they believe is right. They are fighting for the betterment of thousands of people, including the Iraqi peoples and are willing to die for it all. So if you must protest please just repect the men and women who are fighting because they are ten times more of a man or woman than we are sitting here talking shit about war or even those of us who believe that the war is for the right cause.

God bless our men and women who continue to fight as well as those who no longer have to.

**Anthony Ng** · 03-23-2003, 04:43 AM

The title should read:

To all U.S. anti-war protestors

Just a little disclaimer: First off, I'm Canadian.

Even back in Vietnam, there were people who risks their lives honestly believing it was the right thing to do. Some Iraqi soldiers who took part in invading Kuwait felt the same perhaps, just as some Japanese who bombed the hell out of Pearl Harbor did.

I care for the lives of American military men and women who risk their lives in this unjust war, just as I care for the Iraqis who fought against those invading their country. I care even MORE for the innocent civilians who will in coming days or weeks or months lose their lives, just as I care for those innocent civilians who lost their lives in the WTO. THAT'S WHY WE PROTEST AGAINST WAR! Do you get it?

**StockDoctor** · 03-23-2003, 05:40 AM

Nameslave

Firstly, on your post above, I think British Angel is obviously British and I think she meant her opening line the way she wrote it.

Most US citizens (like myself) do not want war and we are free to voice our opinion and protest. I'm proud of the fact that you too (as a Canadian) can rely on the US to continue to protect your right to say what you want. I would wager though that if you were an Iraqi citizen, I don't think you would be around long if you voiced anti-Iraq sentiment. You do owe some thanks to the US for standing up for your rights to protest as Canada doesn't have to spend much on their budget for defense when they can count on the US to cover any such costs. Someone does have to step into a situation where a dictator oppresses and kills anyone who would dare challenge his actions, and if not the US, then who? The UN is sometimes influenced by countries like France, Germany and Russia that oppose actions against someone like Saddam partially because of their business arrangements on oil and weapons sales. They are willing to allow the continuation of the oppression in Iraq if they get what they want. I don't doubt the alterior motives of Bush, as he is an idiot, but that is not the US primary motive here. Freedom is. While again hoping that this war will end soon, and with as little loss of life as possible, I also hope that the people of the new Iraq will enjoy the same freedoms (of speech etc.) that you now enjoy, courtesy of the US.

**Anthony Ng** · 03-23-2003, 06:01 AM

Originally posted by Stocdoctor
I'm proud of the fact that you too (as a Canadian) can rely on the US to continue to protect your right to say what you want ... You do owe some thanks to the US for standing up for your rights to protest as Canada doesn't have to spend much on their budget for defense when they can count on the US to cover any such costs.

Sorry, but Canadians does NOT need the U.S. to protect their country. Actually, the ONLY country that has ever invaded Canada is the U.S.!

**Banned: Larry** · 03-23-2003, 06:43 AM

NS - nothing wrong with being a proud canadian...we like canada (today anyway).

But don't delude yourself into thinking that you don't need the US military if you were to come under attack by any military power larger than Mexicos.

Canada will spend approx. $12.3 billion - which is 16th highest in the world.

The US will spend - $343.2 billion

Canada (in land mass) is slightly larger than the US and has about 11% of the popluation of the US. A difficult and large area to defend if it were to come under attack.

So, being on the same continent seems to have it's benefits no? Our strengths allow canada to commit a higher percentage of its budget to social programs for its citizens...i.e. a recent canadian poll (angus reid) showed that canadians ranked military spending as their lowest priority and social programs as their highest.

If you disagree with that you should do some homework on the canadian budget.

**Banned: Tippy** · 03-23-2003, 06:52 AM

You make Canada sound weak and cheap. We don't have to worry about being attacked, we keep our noses out of other peoples/Countries biz.

The US has a bad rep, disliked by many Countries and people, even by their own citizens. You need to have a strong army to defend your Country whenever your Pres decides to take over another Country and run it as he see's fit.

Mike

**Anthony Ng** · 03-23-2003, 07:07 AM

Originally posted by Larry
... a recent canadian poll (angus reid) showed that canadians ranked military spending as their lowest priority and social programs as their highest.

If you disagree with that you should do some homework on the canadian budget.

EXACTLY! Canadians are peace-loving people and we don't feel like spending our money building weapons.

By the way, I actually major in Public Administration and have got an A in a graduate Public Sector Budgeting course.

**StockDoctor** · 03-23-2003, 07:26 AM

Please don't take my comments as an attack on Canada. I have all the respect in the world for Canada, have many friends there, and visit often as I live in NH. They also come to visit me each year during bikeweek in droves. My point was that a large number of countries enjoy the flexibility of spending their budgets on programs other than defense due to their reliance (acknowledged) on the US defense budget. That's in International economics 101. While I may prefer that the US take a more isolationist stance when it comes to conflicts outside our border, many countries would be equally appalled if we stood back and turned away from the pleas of other oppressed people. Don't get me wrong, the US does look the other way in numerous situations and are called to the carpet because of it as is noted in several threads here. That's wrong too. The US is made up of many varied opinions and peoples (and that's good) so to label them with a broad brush (out of anger on a specific issue) is just plain wrong.

**Banned: Larry** · 03-23-2003, 07:50 AM

Mike...no disrespect but those are all weak emotional arguments so I want take the time to respond to them individually..

I'm not attacking canadians or canada...just pointing out the flaws in NS's post.

I agree with stoc about canada. great country even if they chose to sit this one out (lot of french up there arent there?

).

EXACTLY! Canadians are peace-loving people and we don't feel like spending our money building weapons.

I understand! So lower your canadian dander and dont tell us you dont need us.

By the way, I actually major in Public Administration and have got an A in a graduate Public Sector Budgeting course.

Wasnt questioning your abilities...just your statement.

**Banned: CoolHost.com** · 03-23-2003, 07:58 AM

Agree with Larry!

**Anthony Ng** · 03-23-2003, 09:04 AM

The truth is as Tippy/Mike pointed out that Canada has FAR LESS enemies, and we do NOT need the U.S. to defend OUR country.

Moreover, Canada is NOT a weak partner in world peace. Her troop played an important role in defending Hong Kong against Japanese invasion in the Second World War. Just that Canada only do the right thing.

**Banned: Larry** · 03-23-2003, 10:58 AM

The current administration in south korea was elected by the people based upon their "we dont need the US" bashing.

After listening to the rhetoric for awhile we suggested that we move our troops from a frontline position to a spot behind the capital.

The reply was - We need the US to continue to be a trip-wire and maintain their current postions...which was closely followed by some pro-US rallys in the street.

Go figure.

You want to see some shock and awe?...let us return to a benign or isolationist policy and you'll get a first hand glimpse.

Do the right thing?....you are afforded that luxury by your proximity.

It is a two way street though. You dont think Vermont could keep maple syrup in stock at all the IHOP's do you?

p.s. btw, it was a royal beating that the islanders put on montreal the other night after the canadians jeered during our national anthem.

**izopod** · 03-23-2003, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by nameslave

EXACTLY! Canadians are peace-loving people and we don't feel like spending our money building weapons.

The problem with this approach is that your military is forced to use equipment that is old (well documented) and in need of repair. Some lawmakers in Canada say that this is a serious problem that needs to be addressed.

As far as Canadians being peace loving, I don't doubt that one bit. The problem is when the US needs to (as a superpower) take action against a brutal regime we find ourselves "out-in-the-cold" politically with one of our closest allies. As a result, I truly believe our true closest ally is definitely England. (Many American's feel this way)

Not to say Canada hasn't gone the full mile any other time, it just seems like when we needed Canada the most, they weren't there. Americans will remember that. Nonetheless, we will drive on. The war on terror still continues and we need Canada more then ever. We need to "Fix the problem" with our differences fast!! Our homeland security depends on it!!

**Anthony Ng** · 03-23-2003, 11:30 AM

To be fair, I don't think it's appropriate to boo when the U.S. national anthem is playing, but the incident in Montreal the other day clearly show how popular the U.S. is among Canadians.

**izopod** · 03-23-2003, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by nameslave
To be fair, I don't think it's appropriate to boo when the U.S. national anthem is playing, but the incident in Montreal the other day clearly show how popular the U.S. is among Canadians.

Isn't Montreal in a mainly french-speaking Providence??

edit: http://www.nationalgeographic.com/tr...9montreal.html --lol

**mole** · 03-23-2003, 11:38 AM

Between the devil and the deep-blue-sea, I'd take the devil. War is never good, but we need to get off our high moral horses some time and think of the feelings of the US/British/Coalition troops in Iraq who are risking their lives for a mission that people are throwing bricks at.

Protesters don't lose their lives. Troops do. Let's give them some comfort in the thought that they are doing something honorable. It was not their choice, they are just doing what they were trained to do.

**izopod** · 03-23-2003, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by mole

Protesters don't lose their lives. Troops do. Let's give them some comfort in the thought that they are doing something honorable. It was not their choice, they are just doing what they were trained to do.

Here, here... Well said mole!! Oh and nice Sig. Line btw

**Anthony Ng** · 03-23-2003, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by mole
Protesters don't lose their lives. Troops do.

Not intended to flame, but the truth is:

Protesters don't kill, troops do.

If you have seen Stanley Kubrick's Full Metal Jacket, you'll know that the military is trained to KILL, nothing else. Of course, they are just following orders. They are victims too, I would say. However, whether it's so-called "honorable" is still debatable. Oliver North also thought he was an honorable man.

**beatz** · 03-23-2003, 11:53 AM

Right on the nail, nameslave.

**britishangel** · 03-23-2003, 11:57 AM

First of all I DO NOT CARE WHERE YOU ARE FROM! or whether you agree with war or not. I wasn't asking about "your" country...which incidentally I believe it was invaded at one time by the French...could be wrong? Anyhow I didn't ask for any of this debate i simply asked you to think about troops who are fighting for the freedoms that you so obviously take for granted.
I would also like to mention that "not sticking your nose in other countries business..." I guess that includes the troops that Canada sent to Afghanistan? (Including the 3rd Battalion of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry), How about the three warships, field hospital and an Air Task Group comprised of 26 CF-18s and an air tanker that you guys sent into the Gulf War, Also were you aware that "In the Persian Gulf region, a small number of Canadian war planners joined coalition forces at a key command post, according to a U.S. military official. The Canadians arrived at the As Sayliyah base in Qatar, where U.S., British and Australian troops are stationed." Your guys are out there too regardless of whether they are fighting they are planning so don't say that your country is free of blame that they don't "stick their noses in other people's business."

The US takes an initiative to assist other countries and i sure as hell would want their help if i was an individual under Sadam's regime. What the hell is the difference between who makes the decision to go to war in the first place? Either way one SMALL group of people representing the majority make the decision and i would rather it be a man who knows that we have the capability to do what we set out to do.

That aside because i didn't set out to have this as an anti-war pro-war debate, all i asked you to do was to pretty much pray for the men and women who are out there. They are fighting for something they believe in...note to you when you believe in something so much you are prepared to die for it, not just hide behind words and statistics. Regardless of whether you want to fight or whether you like war or not, you believe you are doing the right thing and so you do it no matter what the outcome may be because you love your country and you agree with the mission you have set out to do. The men and women who are out in Iraq right now ARE NOT people who hide behind words and are not people who sit and whine about how unfair it is that we went to war. Even if they don't particularly care for war they went because they respect their country and the respect choices that are made by our president. You don't have to agree with the war to respect people who are fighting for the freedoms that you so obviously DO take for granted.