Rite of passage - I've been scammed for the first time

[PokerPie]

No, you have spent a lot of time dancing around my questions and points and making it seem as though the scammers always win.

I'm sorry that you were burnt in the past but I highly doubt PayPal would allow a system where the scammers always win.

[Gerry]

No, you have spent a lot of time dancing around my questions and points and making it seem as though the scammers always win.

Seems like you have an issue with comprehending and absorbing the information I have given you. There is a serious disconnect on this forum between the differences of reading and reading comprehension.

I have not only specifically answered your questions, I have provided real life scenarios as well as actual examples and responses from PayPal.

Use or abuse this information all you want. Fact is, nothing (including you) is going to change PayPal's policy for non-tangible or intangible items.

What you see it as if the scammer always wins in reality is PayPal providing a service and a system where PayPal always wins but .

Sorry you don't like the answers or the scenarios or the real life examples. They were not published based on your likes and dislikes. They outline very much what has happened to you and what the final outcome will be.

You need to deal with it, not me.

[MichaelJ137]

why don't you guys just call each other? ; ) Less typing.....

Just saying.........

[Banned: theinvestor]

Doc Com provided a good detailed explanation of how it works... basically you never want to use paypal for domains unless you completely trust the buyer or seller.

There is no way you can dispute the transaction. The only way possible... is if you contact your credit card company and tell them it was fraudulent.

By fraud i mean that you didn't authorize the transaction.. at that point ... you might get the money back but paypal will either a) charge your account - negative balance or b) close your account.

Learn the lesson and move on ..never use paypal for domains period. As a buyer you may be dealing with stolen domains or not even get the domains altogether. As a seller the buyer may reverse the transaction because of a stolen paypal account / stolen credit card.

[Raider]

My understanding was that PayPal is risky for the seller but not the buyer as the buyer can file a claim and get the money back after they have your domain.

I'm curious though if PayPal's policy is to refund the money even if the person has withdrawn it or washed it somehow.

I could go into all the mistakes you made here, but I already think you know what they are, So I wont try to make you feel any worse than you already do.

When somebody on this Forum tells you; "You have ZERO chance of getting your money back" BEFORE knowing or reviewing all the facts of your case, your dealing with outright "ignorance" A person who's incapable of giving you the correct advice.

I had a Merchant account for many years, I also had a number of Chargebacks from low lifes who wanted something for nothing, it' part of the territory of having a merchant account. These were VIRTUAL Chargebacks and back when they were happening, the rulings went against me, that's when I learned very quickly how to protect myself, I also learned how the crooks were getting away with it.

And like most here, I've dealt with Paypal, where I've purchased hundreds of non-virtual items, I've had about 2 dozen transactions go bad where the seller was negligent, Paypal ruled against me in almost every case, This came as surprise because now I was dealing with a 3rd party processor, which operates quite differently with regard to protecting the buyer, But the experience I had with Visa/Mastercard when I had that merchant account gave me an edge, I followed Paypal policy by filing the complaints expecting they would again decline it, and then I filed the Credit Card dispute against Paypal,... In every single case, I was able to recover my money, Not once was it charged back again to my Credit Card.

I realize your situation is different because it's a virtual item, Contrary to what DocCrum says, the charge CAN be reversed where it won't be charged to your card again, You just need to know how to go about it, What you do early in the transaction is very important, what you tell Paypal is important. My guess is you were truthful and sometimes being truthful can hurt your chances of recovery. Everything you tell Paypal is recorded and everything in your Credit Card dispute is recorded, Both of these need to match up, If it doesn't, the decision to reverse the charge is more likely to go against you.

I would like to know the following;

How much is the combined total of all 3 transactions?
Did you pay with ACH, a Credit Card or Debit/CCard?
What type of goods did you select when you sent the money?
What have you reported to Paypal so far?

Doc you are contradicting yourself!

Without his contradiction, DNF would lose one of it's biggest Hypocrites.

I highly doubt PayPal would allow a system where the scammers always win.

Sorry to say, but the scammers DO often win.. (not always, but often) Let me give you just one real life example of a non-virtual item;

I purchased a "New and Sealed bottle of perfume, D&G Light Blue, I had money in my Paypal account and when I paid for it, by default that money was used. I received the perfume and noticed the coloring was different, Opened it up and discovered it was watered down, I went to the sellers Feedback and found that everyone he sold perfume to during the same time period, complained about the same thing. I filed a Paypal dispute, what I received in return was a complete rejection of my claim, stating they don't protect against the condition of goods. Nice.

And since I paid with Paypal funds, I had NO recourse. So the Scammer won and I lost over $80

Learned a good lesson though, Always clean out your Paypal account before making a payment.

[PokerPie]

GoDaddy just took the domains out of my account, it's up to PayPal now.

---------- Post added at 02:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:44 PM ----------

you never want to use paypal for domains unless you completely trust the buyer or seller.

There is no way you can dispute the transaction.

You also, are implying that the system is rigged in favor of scammers. That simply is not possible. One side has the advantage when selling intangible assets, either the buyer or the seller. You and Doc Com are both implying that one side does have the advantage - whoever is on the other side of the transaction from the honest domainer.

Not possible....

[James Jean]

It had to happen eventually...

I agreed to buy two domains and paid via PayPal. Now the domains are listed in my GD account as 'on hold - domain dispute' and the seller is not responding to emails. The purchase was 2-3 days ago.

I see how to open a claim in PayPal and have done so. My question is what are my chances of getting the money back? If they moved the money out of their PayPal account will I still get paid? And if the domains were stolen GoDaddy is going to take them from me, right?

Thanks

---------- Post added at 07:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:09 PM ----------

Something just occurred to me. He asked me to do the payment in two pieces. I actually did it in three. I sent him three separate PayPal payments. Is that some loophole or something in PayPal's rules where he's going to get to keep some of the money? Nobody has ever asked me to do that before...

I actually had a buyer ask me if I could recieve payment split in 3. It was $900 total. Its been months no issue and its beyond dispute date. I asked him why and he said Paypal doesn't allow him to send all that amount at once from his country.

[PokerPie]

GoDaddy took the domains and gave them back to the owner.

PayPal rejected my dispuit and let the scammer keep the money.

Question: If the situation were reversed and I never sent the domains, why would PayPal ever give the money to the buyer? That is to say, under what circumstances could a buyer ever defraud a seller via PayPal as PayPal simply rejected my claim (as the buyer) because I bought digital goods? Do they just flip a coin or what?

[Banned: theinvestor]

Pokerpie,

I am not sure why it is a hard concept to understand that paypal does not like dealing with domains because they are intangible assets. Therefore if you decide to do any transactions by domains you are bearing that risk. Again like i stated unless you completely trust buyer or seller don't do it.

[PokerPie]

What is a hard concept to understand is this:

If I buy stolen domains and I file a claim, I will lose that claim.

and

If I sell domains and a buyer files a claim saying the domains were stolen, I will also lose that claim.

These two statements contradict one another. If I will lose as the buyer I should win as the seller. And if I lose as the seller I should win as the buyer. Otherwise the system is somehow rigged so that the scammer always wins. I don't understand how that could be the case and I wish somebody would address this specific question.

[Banned: theinvestor]

You are definitely missing the point.

1) If I buy stolen domains and I file a claim, I will lose that claim.

Yes you will because those domains that were stolen will be returned to ORIGINAL owner. Nothing to do with paypal. You will not get the money because you paid via PAYPAL which does not recognize intangible assets.

2) If I sell domains and a buyer files a claim saying the domains were stolen, I will also lose that claim.

The buyer does not have to claim anything was stolen. As soon as you write in your description that you sold a DOMAIN which is an INTANGIBLE ASSET according to PAYPAL.. then..

The domains are now no longer in your hands.. the funds are usually from a stolen paypal account or stolen credit card.. therefore the funds are returned to ORIGINAL person.

[INFORG]

What is a hard concept to understand is this:

If I buy stolen domains and I file a claim, I will lose that claim.

and

If I sell domains and a buyer files a claim saying the domains were stolen, I will also lose that claim.

These two statements contradict one another. If I will lose as the buyer I should win as the seller. And if I lose as the seller I should win as the buyer. Otherwise the system is somehow rigged so that the scammer always wins. I don't understand how that could be the case and I wish somebody would address this specific question.

It is a little more complex than that PP.

1. If you buy from a seller with a stolen, hacked, bogus account, PayPal can't recover the money, so you the buyer lose.
2. If you sell to someone and they claim that their account was used fraudulently you, the seller lose (*unless you are using a stolen, hacked, bogus account)

Overall the buyer has the advantage, but only when dealing with a seller that has a real account. What you have to remember is that PayPal will absolutely not eat any of these transactions - if they can't recover from a stolen, hacked account, you cannot recover the money.

So, order of winning party at PayPal:
1. Paypal
2. Scammer
3. Buyer
4. Seller

[PokerPie]

the funds are usually from a stolen paypal account or stolen credit card.. therefore the funds are returned to ORIGINAL person.

If true, this would explain the contradiction.

Thanks

---------- Post added at 11:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:31 AM ----------

I don't see how the buyer ever has an advantage over the seller, if one of them is a scammer and one is not.

A buyer buying stolen domains is always going to lose the domains and the money.

A seller can recover if the buyer wasn't hacked and still has money in his account.

[Banned: theinvestor]

There's a reason people don't like to do paypal for anything above $500. It's just not safe especially if you don't know who you are dealing with.

Stick with escrow.. if the deal is too good to be true it probably is.

[Gerry]

You are definitely missing the point.

...been doing that the entire thread.