no comments in sales threads

**PokerPie** · 03-09-2009, 12:35 AM

http://www.dnforum.com/f116/21-850-v...ad-354544.html

this guy is clearly scamming and selling fraud traffic.

why are we not allowed to say this in the sales thread?

we should be able to warn newbies about scams, not force people not to tell them and let sellers get away with their scams.

this is why this industry has a bad name. this policy allows wide scale scamming.

**Acro** · 03-09-2009, 01:19 AM

Unfortunately he sold me a domain a while back with traffic that only lasted for two weeks. But the domain was good enough on its own so I didn't complain.

**Gerry** · 03-09-2009, 01:37 AM

I posted in that thread.

http://www.dnforum.com/f116/21-850-v...ml#post1664986

It may be legit.

It was a Malaysian/Indonesian site on January 2008.

Traffic from that region can be high with very, very poor conversion.

And as Acro states, it falls off rapidly.

Chances are when you park it everything is pretty much in English or a language that does not translate well.

Thus, traffic falls off as the population soon find the site they used to visit is gone.

One of my domains, was from that region and when I first caught it I was getting over 2000 hits a day.

**Acro** · 03-09-2009, 01:38 AM

In my case it was proxy traffic.

**Gerry** · 03-09-2009, 01:45 AM

Mandarin
1,120,000,000
China, Malaysia, Taiwan

English
510,000,000
USA, UK, Australia, Canada, New Zealand

This will give some an idea of why the traffic can be so high in that region.

Takes 5 nations to make up half the Chinese language.

**PokerPie** · 03-09-2009, 07:19 AM

thank you but you guys are missing the forest for the tree's

i'm not talking about this guy, im questioning the 'no comments in sales threads' rule in the first place. i think it is a terrible rule and should be reformed/ammended to exclude possible fraud

**Johnn** · 03-09-2009, 08:18 AM

As a buyer you have the rights to question the seller about the traffic details via PM or email and as always you need to do your homework before committing to any transaction.

We do not get involve in personal transaction and we can't allow comments/remarks in sales thread.

Thanks you for your concerns,

**katherine** · 03-09-2009, 08:37 AM

use the button to report the post to the mods.

**PokerPie** · 03-09-2009, 09:28 AM

johnn you are a good and fair moderator and i know you are just enforcing the rules

i am questioning those rules though. these rules allow scammers to operate on these forums and no comments forces more experience domainers not to warn the noobs!

sending a pm to the guy is worthless. once i spot a scammer i am obviously not going to buy his domain...so whats the point of sending him a pm?

but just because i spotted the scam does not mean others did. we should be able to warn our fellow dnforum members! and hopefully when i am about to buy a domain that is a scam somebody else will warn me!

**Johnn** · 03-09-2009, 09:37 AM

We only moderate the forum and enforce the rules.
I don't have any problem with members who asked questions related to the sale but I can't allow members who make comments/remarks in a sales thread.
An accuse of fake traffic or scam would be inappropriate in a sales thread.

Feel free to PM us any suspicious activities and we will do our best to take appropriate action.

Thanks,
John

**PokerPie** · 03-09-2009, 09:38 AM

buyer beware is a stupid policy. they don't have this rule in shopping malls. if a store setup shop next to Barneys and they were selling fake designer clothing...the mall would not say 'sorry you should do your homework...no telling other customers about to pay $500 for a knockoff jacket that its a knockoff!' they would kick them out of the mall or at least put a huge sign in front of it saying 'warning, this store sells knockoff goods, be careful'

seems like the forum knows there are scammers here selling bogus traffic and does not care...but you could set in place some simple rules to protect us!!!!!

We only moderate the forum and enforce the rules.

I know that. I'm not complaining about you. You are doing a fine job of enforcing a terrible rule.

I don't have any problem with members who asked questions related to the sale but I can't allow members who make comments/remarks in a sales thread.

Again, I know. You didn't make this rule and its not your duty or job to change it. I'm directing this thread to the people who make the rules that you enforce.

An accuse of fake traffic or scam would be inappropriate in a sales thread.

False! It would be a service to the community! Not allowing these is terrible and probably opens you guys up to litigation if people get scammed for any serious amount of money.

Feel free to PM us any suspicious activities and we will do our best to take appropriate action.

I don't have time to monitor every thread then argue with you guys about whether or not its a fraud. If you are allowing the thread I posted in my OP obviously your burden of proof is extremely high.

I'm not saying lift the ban on no comments. I'm saying ammend the rule or add in some type of user rating system or SOMEthing where we can warn noobs about the dangers and risks associated with specific sales

DNForum is not the only one with this policy but it is just absolutely terrible!!!

**Carter** · 03-09-2009, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by PokerPie

buyer beware is a stupid policy. they don't have this rule in shopping malls. if a store setup shop next to Barneys and they were selling fake designer clothing...the mall would not say 'sorry you should do your homework...no telling other customers about to pay $500 for a knockoff jacket that its a knockoff!' they would kick them out of the mall or at least put a huge sign in front of it saying 'warning, this store sells knockoff goods, be careful'

seems like the forum knows there are scammers here selling bogus traffic and does not care...but you could set in place some simple rules to protect us!!!!!

First: I hate comments in sales threads so I agree with Johnn.
If you permit comments people start talkin trash on every thread.
If a guy want sell fdgfhfjgfjkfggfdsgd.com for 10 millions he can do it (just don't bid on it and the sale is over naturally).

But it's time we create a subforum called "scammers" where ppl can post personal informations about these rats.
Personal informations, not crap infos.

I'm tired of these criminals.
Scammers are CRIMINALS.
I report a scammer to mods but nothing changed...the scammer is still here.

I've limited my domains for sale (40% less) because an idiot (famous scammer in my country) every time I post a name for sale sent me a stupid pm.
I've sent pm's to mods and they said me they will investigate but this scammer is still here bulding a good itrader (he's not stupid).

Yesterday another guy selling a domain he don't own but he still have the thread open (he's not a scammer but he always sell domains he don't own).

I know this person too...not the first time he sell domains he don't own.

If we wait 3 weeks or more for ban suspicious members it's clear people get scammed.

The next time I've meet a person I know is a scammer/fraud I open a thread with personal infos so Google will index it fast.

I'm tired of these criminals.
Scammers are CRIMINALS.
I'm an honest guy for all my life, I work 16/18 hours every day legally so I want these scammers go to jail.

**Gerry** · 03-09-2009, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by PokerPie

thank you but you guys are missing the forest for the tree's

i'm not talking about this guy, im questioning the 'no comments in sales threads' rule in the first place. i think it is a terrible rule and should be reformed/ammended to exclude possible fraud

Ppie, it might help to post a general comment instead of directing every one to a particular thread.

Not only did you do that you then went on to say:

"this guy is clearly scamming and selling fraud traffic."

So yes, you were talking about "this guy".

The only one missing the forest for the trees was you be calling attention to this sapling.

Personally, if I was the original poster and saw your comments in this thread, I would have been outraged.

What could I do?

Not a damn thing except notify the mods.

I know there are some fine lines here. How many "taking offer" threads do we see that ask

stats
BIN
my offer good for

An offer thread is essentially a sales thread.

But before you go correcting me or any of the other respondents to this thread, quit pointing fingers and then try to explain "I wasn't talking about this guy."

**draggar** · 03-09-2009, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by PokerPie

Again, I know. You didn't make this rule and its not your duty or job to change it. I'm directing this thread to the people who make the rules that you enforce.

As stated, feel free to report any suspicious sales. We can get people onto it to investigate and if needed, we can either close the sale, delete it, or move it to the legal section (which we've done all 3 many times in the past, just look in the legal & unresolved sales section).

Originally Posted by Carter

But it's time we create a subforum called "scammers" where ppl can post personal informations about these rats.
Personal informations, not crap infos.

While I agree that scammers are criminals and should be dealt with, a subforum like this would potentially open up the owners of this site to huge legal issues, it can also very easily be abused.

The hard part is figuring out who the scammers are as opposed to those who are making mistakes (sometimes it is very obvious, other times it is not).

Yes, scams are a big issue in this industry but some people here work with other forums and are great at PI work to be able to find the true scams. We do have some members here who are great at the PI work and their help has been enlisted several times in the past with possible scammers and we will continue to enlist them for as long as they're willing to help.

If you see something that is suspicious, do not hesitate to click the report post button and put as much information as you can in the report (I've seen some long reports so I don't think you need to worry about running out of room). If you don't see anything happening - don't assume we're OK with it. We need proof before we can take actions and each report is looked at by at least one mod / admin (usually more than one). Reports are also anonymous so the poster does not know who reported their post (they won't even know that their post has been reported). If we feel we need more information, we will PM the reporter for clarification.

**allroundguy** · 03-09-2009, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by PokerPie

http://www.dnforum.com/f116/21-850-v...ad-354544.html

this guy is clearly scamming and selling fraud traffic.

why are we not allowed to say this in the sales thread?

we should be able to warn newbies about scams, not force people not to tell them and let sellers get away with their scams.

this is why this industry has a bad name. this policy allows wide scale scamming.

Evidence needs to be provided to prove that something is a scam.
Intuition, strange conditions, emotions, etc. are insufficient.
Business is convincing people to buy.

People are free to research about the sales arguments.
Then, decide to go for the risk and the price or not.
We sell at the price we want, not that others want.
Nobody is forced to buy at a price they do not like.

Traffic cannot be proved, unless by handing over login and password to an account.
Screen shots etc. can (and often are) manipulated.
People buy domains "As Is" in the idea to get more out of it than they put in it.

Fraud is a law enforcement matter.
Victims should complain to the correct office.
Exposing fraud here leans close to hearsay and gossip.
Dangerous.
Newbies can be warned about questioned techniques, but not against people.

Imho, the forum rules are correct.

**biggedon** · 03-09-2009, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by PokerPie

http://www.dnforum.com/f116/21-850-v...ad-354544.html

this guy is clearly scamming and selling fraud traffic.

why are we not allowed to say this in the sales thread?

we should be able to warn newbies about scams, not force people not to tell them and let sellers get away with their scams.

this is why this industry has a bad name. this policy allows wide scale scamming.

when members want to make or post allegations in other members sales threads, then they should be able to "Prove it".

Proof means credible data that "conflicts with" what the OP has stated in his post.
That "Proof" should be contained in the "Report" message when you report the thread.

If you don't have proof, then you shouldn't be making statements.

It's fair to ask, "where is traffic coming from" in the thread, when you have or are showing an "interest/intent to purchase", but not just asking questions when you are not even interested in the domain.

We don't consider domains that have "paid" traffic going to them or directed to them as "traffic" domains.

Only type-in traffic and link traffic are qualified to be posted in the "Domains with Traffic" section.

as one member compared buying domains to going to a shopping mall, let me say this.

this is no shopping mall!!!

it's more like a "Flea-Market", so thinking in that frame of mind, you're likely to run into a few "knock-offs" of brand name items, or "faux", "look-alike" items that are not the real deal.

So, it's up to you to do your homework....please!

**PokerPie** · 03-22-2009, 07:14 AM

Scammers unite! No comments in sales threads rule must not be changed! Darwinism at work! It's a crime to let a sucker keep his money!

**mntor** · 03-22-2009, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by Carter

First: I hate comments in sales threads so I agree with Johnn.
If you permit comments people start talkin trash on every thread.
If a guy want sell fdgfhfjgfjkfggfdsgd.com for 10 millions he can do it (just don't bid on it and the sale is over naturally).

I second that. The best option is to report to the mods if you can prove the seller is a scammer.

**RTM.net** · 03-22-2009, 09:37 PM

Just adding to the voice that comments or analysis about a domain in a sales thread is inappropriate. There is, however, nothing wrong with requesting - publicly - for more information about traffic sources (when the sale mentions traffic) ...

If the seller doesn't elaborate further (either in the thread or by PM), then it becomes a case of buyer beware.

Having a scammer forum where everyone can blindly denigrate any sales thread would simply degenerate into a useless venue, IMHO.

Rob

**jaydub** · 03-22-2009, 10:33 PM

I see too many "feeding frenzy" "piling on" posts in the forums...keep the comments to yourself unless you have ironclad proof of fraudulent action/s.

Originally Posted by biggedon

it's more like a "Flea-Market", so thinking in that frame of mind, you're likely to run into a few "knock-offs" of brand name items, or "faux", "look-alike" items that are not the real deal.

How many times does this have to be said...

Originally Posted by biggedon

So, it's up to you to do your homework....please!