Rule 12

[tigga]

12. Users may disagree with the decisions or actions of the moderators and/or administrators. However disagreements, criticism and the like are not to be aired within the discussion topics. Please feel free to PM the person directly rather than air your dirty laundry in public.


The DNF is a community and a community only exists because it has members. As such, my belief is that actions taken that offend or detrimentally affect portions of the community should be allowed to be discussed by the community.

For instance, I don't like the fact that there is an adult discussion section in our community and I have posted my criticism of this decision by management. However, it was clear that a large portion of the community found this beneficial, so while my opinion is unchanged, I ceased my criticism.

Obviously personal issues should be discussed privately, but restricting criticism of management decisions and actions hides the impact that those decisions are having on individual members from the DNF community. This is not in the spirit of a community. It also discourages discussion and debate, which are a major source of learning and improvement.

Personal attacks (BTW, Rule 13 is a great one) are intolerable and the rules clearly state this. Given there are no personal attacks, what does management have to lose by public debate on its actions? From a management and running a business point of view, it is only beneficial to have your customers praise, criticise and critique your decisions. Then you know you are giving your market what you want.

It is in everyones interest to remove Rule 12 and removal can only serve to encourage the DNF community's long-term growth.

[GiantDomains]

The new rules are for your protection, and to help us all focus on what we are here for ... domains.

[tigga]

I agree that the rules are necessary and agree with rules 1-11 and 13.

However, restricting freedom of discussion within a community, especially concerning decisions that directly impact the community does not protect members - how can it? Discussions about these decisions (that conform to the other rules) can only serve to further inform management, keep members connected and make things better for the community. How does it protect members?

[Mr Webname]

The fact that so many people have different opinions of what should and should not be done is why we need rules in the first place.
I have rules in my house and I make those rules - some people may not agree with them but they can choose to come to my house and obey my rules or they can go to someone else's house.
If they abuse my rules or say abusive things about me to others they will not be allowed to come to my house - I don't think its so different here.
If I have a friend and he/she thinks I've done something wrong I expect them to come and talk to me about it - if instead they go running around the town telling everyone else that they think I'm a *&%$££ then I no longer count them amongst my friends.

[mole]

I'm sorry, but I have to step in on this one.

Rule 7

Members will not be allowed to promote their own website/business outside of the Advertising forums, members will be warned and could also lose their forum membership if "spamming" on the forums where it is not allowed. Members are only allowed to create one thread/day in the Advertising forums. Each forum will be monitored for content. Any content that violates DNForum's policies of acceptable use may be removed.

*hint hint*

I have been to forums where you are not allowed to have a nick that directly promotes your website, whether .com or no .com is added.

Signatures that promote your own website/business is also a definite no.

Why is everyone keeping mum on this rule?

If we continue this way, we will quickly erode into the grips of communism and dictatorial rule, imo. If democratic expression and consensus erodes into set psychological make-ups/paradigms/interests of just a 'elite' few, then we will have a Saddam state all over again. Democracy rocks!

[tigga]

I agree with you Mr Webname that the owner makes the rules and they can make whatever rules they want. I also agree that if you think you have been wronged you visit that person individually rather than backstab them.

However, I am talking about a community being free to discuss and criticise the decisions of management, much similar to citizens being allowed to dispute decisions of government.

[mole]

Originally posted by Mr Webname
I have rules in my house and I make those rules - some people may not agree with them but they can choose to come to my house and obey my rules or they can go to someone else's house.

Yeah, its just that THIS house was owned by 3 people in less than a year. You can't blame those who pioneered and helped build this community up with their time and contributions and gave their $49 support when everyone was criticising the payment system to feel that they are now being thrown out of the house they helped build.

[Mr Webname]

Tigga, I think you've been allowed to do that - you seem to have started about 3 threads and added your thoughts on this subject to many more.
I think that we can all make our feelings known to "the management" without having one issue take over the forum. If I don't like something that someone is doing I tell them - if they don't agree then thay can talk to me and maybe I'll re-consider and maybe I won't. If it's in my house it's me who finally decides, if it's their house I expect them to decide and if I don't like their decision I don't have to go back again.
Citizens elect their government (in most cases) and they can make their feelings known publicly and at the next election - it doesn't alter the fact that if you go to the house of the government head, you still have to obey his house rules.
This forum is not a truly "public" forum it is a paid membership and as such members are subject to the rules.
Test it out if you like - go to your nearest golf club and tell them that you want to tee off on the greens!

[mole]

Originally posted by Mr Webname
it doesn't alter the fact that if you go to the house of the government head, you still have to obey his house rules.
This forum is not a truly "public" forum it is a paid membership and as such members are subject to the rules.

Fine webby, I'll set the example and follow the house rules by cleaning up all mentions of prohibited self promotions on (1) my nick (hmm, I don't have mole.com/net/org/info/biz/us/cn/eu), (2) my user id and (3) my sig.

If the members here don't follow suit with the rules, then they deserve to be banned.

[Mr Webname]

Point taken Mole (I think) and I have adjusted my "sig" to remove the extra link (although it was a link to "view new posts" on the forum) and reduced my lines from 5 to 4.
I had overlooked this change but I think I now comply. However I would be grateful to you if you can point out to me any other way that you think I might be contravening the rules.

[mole]

You need to take out that link to your website "Mr. Webname's shop" to comply with the rules. But its really up to you. If everyone gets banned because of this, DNF will collapse. My point is that rules are/can only be guidelines. Understanding and compassion is important for good community karma.

[tigga]

Originally posted by Mr Webname
Tigga, I think you've been allowed to do that - you seem to have started about 3 threads and added your thoughts on this subject to many more.
I think that we can all make our feelings known to "the management" without having one issue take over the forum. If I don't like something that someone is doing I tell them - if they don't agree then thay can talk to me and maybe I'll re-consider and maybe I won't. If it's in my house it's me who finally decides, if it's their house I expect them to decide and if I don't like their decision I don't have to go back again.
Citizens elect their government (in most cases) and they can make their feelings known publicly and at the next election - it doesn't alter the fact that if you go to the house of the government head, you still have to obey his house rules.
This forum is not a truly "public" forum it is a paid membership and as such members are subject to the rules.
Test it out if you like - go to your nearest golf club and tell them that you want to tee off on the greens!

I agree that members are subject to the rules that management sets and that management can set whatever rules it likes (as long as they offer money back to members who paid for memberships with the understanding of the old rules). I don't dispute your point at all. I am just saying it is not in the long-term interests of a community or business to restrict discussion of management decisions.

[Mr Webname]

Originally posted by mole
You need to take out that link to your website "Mr. Webname's shop" to comply with the rules. But its really up to you. If everyone gets banned because of this, DNF will collapse. My point is that rules are/can only be guidelines. Understanding and compassion is important for good community karma.

I don't agree with you here, however to be sure I am requesting a Mod to provide a ruling.

[mole]

I come here for the members, not management. I will go where the members go.

[mole]

Originally posted by Mr Webname
I don't agree with you here, however to be sure I am requesting a Mod to provide a ruling.

I'm not asking you to, web. Rule 7 clearly implies that. Forum adminstrators know that members can SPAM via their nicks (eg. Moleforum.com) and signatures (Visit moleforums.com click here).

7. Members will not be allowed to promote their own website/business outside of the Advertising forums, members will be warned and could also lose their forum membership if "spamming" on the forums where it is not allowed.

If you don't believe me, try going to http://www.searchengineforums.com and try doing what you are doing here.

Anyway, the mods can't answer this, since they are technically also in violation of Rule 7.

As I said, I'm not trying to be petty. Just to show you how ridiculous rules can sometimes be.

[Banned: Larry]

Just so I am clear on the new rules I have a few questions...


1. No content that is considered racist, obscene or objectionable will be tolerated. All such posts will be deleted without notice. This includes avatars. This could result in the loss of your dnforum.com membership without reimbursement.


So if I find a post, sig, or avatar that I find objectionable I should click on the "report this post" and add my comments correct? (just tried it a couple of times...works great. but i didnt see any follow up on any of the objectionable posts by the mods.) This would include paying and non-paying members, mods, the humor section, etc.?




2. You will not violate a person's privacy by publishing against someone's will information that is private and personal.


N/Q (wasnt aware that was an issue)

3. Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. We take politeness very seriously. You are welcome to challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectively and thoughtfully. Users caught flaming other users will have their accounts locked on sight, possibly with a temporary ban.


Who will be the arbiter of what constitutes a personal attack? Between some people questioning the number of legs your mother walks on is nothing more than good clean fun. While others who are in touch with their emotions (not that there is anything wrong with that) could feel as if they are under attack if you tell them the buttercup in their avatar is the wrong shade of yellow. It's not a bad rule...just can be very difficult to mod. (speaking from past experience of being a mod on two boards that were substantially larger than this one squishy rules make for confusing and inconsistent "modding")




4. Do not ask for an appraisal on a domain name that you don't own. This is a waste of valuable talent.


N/Q



5. Create threads in the proper forum. Threads created in the wrong forum are subject to deletion. Should you continue to create more work for the moderators, your membership will be revoked without reimbursement.


N/Q - when will this rule be enforced - i reported a thread in the domain sales twice yesterday and it is still there this morning. Are these really rules or just suggestions open to the interpretation of each individaul member until the owner decides he doesnt like one members inerpretation and kicks them out for posting in the wrong area.

if they are rules why are they selectively being enforced?



6. Spammers will receive a swift kick in the ass, as well as a lengthy ban.


Yes, I like what you've done here (funny movie no?)


7. Members will not be allowed to promote their own website/business outside of the Advertising forums, members will be warned and could also lose their forum membership if "spamming" on the forums where it is not allowed. Members are only allowed to create one thread/day in the Advertising forums. Each forum will be monitored for content. Any content that violates DNForum's policies of acceptable use may be removed.


This is fuzzy - promote means..? In your sig is ok but you can't make a post that mentions your business/website?

What is the "advertising forums"? Offers are made in the many different areas..Hosting...domains...related offers...and others. Are they the "advertising forums"? if so, does the rule mean that if you post a domain for sale you cant then post a related offer for 24 hours?





8. Your forum signature may not exceed 4 lines in length, and may contain no more than two links. The use of your forum signature to attack another member is not allowed. HTML and the IMG vB code have been disabled.


So is posting names that you have for sale in your sig against the rules? Is posting your business in your sig against the rules?





9. Stay focused on the topic under discussion.
The forum is not a place for advertising your domains or services everywhere. Please keep your domains for sale in the appropriate forum. Please note, messages posted to DNForum are not pre-screened.


N/Q



10. Only 1 post per day in the Domains For Sale forum. Please put all of the names you wish to sell for that day in one post. Replying to your post with additional domains periodically throughout the day to bump your post is not permitted.


N/Q (bumping happening as we speak. have these rules been up for 2 days? if so, when will they actually be enforced? what is appropriate bumping...price change? packaging?)






11. We take the "be polite" rule VERY seriously! We do not tolerate ANY rudeness. Any member who is intentionally unpleasant or disruptive will receive one warning (at our discretion), and if the member offends again the member will be banned without warning and without reimbursement.


So appraising in a sales thread is rude and disruptive...they go? Commenting in a sales thread with no intention to buy is rude and disruptive...they go?


12. Users may disagree with the decisions or actions of the moderators and/or administrators. However disagreements, criticism and the like are not to be aired within the discussion topics. Please feel free to PM the person directly rather than air your dirty laundry in public.





13. Any abuse towards our staff and/or management will result in immediate suspension of your account.


C'mon...we can get on them if they make a REALLY bad decision can't we? Just a small heckle? A catcall?



Thanks in advance to whomever tackles the clarification for me.










"Theres a new sheriff in town...and his name is reggie hammond. Ya'll be cool"

[Mr Webname]

Originally posted by mole


I'm not asking you to, web. Rule 7 clearly implies that. Forum adminstrators know that members can SPAM via their nicks (eg. Moleforum.com) and signatures (Visit moleforums.com click here).

7. Members will not be allowed to promote their own website/business outside of the Advertising forums, members will be warned and could also lose their forum membership if "spamming" on the forums where it is not allowed.

If you don't believe me, try going to http://www.searchengineforums.com and try doing what you are doing here.

Anyway, the mods can't answer this, since they are technically also in violation of Rule 7.

As I said, I'm not trying to be petty. Just to show you how ridiculous rules can sometimes be.

I've just got back in - no comment from mods as yet so I'll just tell you what I think personally until such time as we get a "ruling". I think (for what it's worth) that this means that I shouldn't got to say the "Appraisals" thread and whilst appraising a name add that I've got a similar/better name at my site, or perhaps if someone asks somewhere about how good a drop script is I shouldn't add that the one I've got is also available/better and give a link to it.
I don't believe that if I do a link to my website or my email in my sig (which Rules allow 2 of) that that contravenes the letter or the spirit of Rule 7.
However that is my view and if I am found to contravene the Rules by what I am doing, I will change it further.

[mole]

Originally posted by Mr Webname
However that is my view and if I am found to contravene the Rules by what I am doing, I will change it further.

Don't sweat it, web Generally, many of larger professional forums do have tight rules on spamming via the username and signatures, let alone the actual posts itself. Lack of this ruling encourages people (spammers generally) to post voraciously and pointlessly just to get extra visibility for their links, and not for the quality of contribution to the community.

[Anthony Ng]

Originally posted by mole


Anyway, the mods can't answer this, since they are technically also in violation of Rule 7.

As I said, I'm not trying to be petty. Just to show you how ridiculous rules can sometimes be.

I know what you mean, mole. That's exactly why the 13 Commandments you see now are of v1.0.

Rules are different in different places: some forums have really strict rules while others are much looser; some post rules that are never enforced. But the bottom line is: use your common sense. It's not particularly constructive to be picky on the text itself. For instance, one of the other foums that I also frequent EXPLICITLY states that advertising is permitted in the signature and homepage fields of your profile but then pricing information (it's a web Hosting community) is not allowed anywhere.

Let me quote from that particular forum again: Participants should use common sense. We don't have a written policy for everything.