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Community software. Explain this to me.

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emark

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We are considering purchasing a license for a community based software. This is the answer I received when I asked how many members/users the software could handle at one time.

"The user limit is only based on the server hardware. This is affected mostly by concurrently active members. It could easily handle 100 million if only 100 visited per hour.

Most single-server setups can handle having 30-40 logged-in members actively using the site any moment (in most cases there are at least 3-4 times that many non-members online at the same time). If your site is completely members-only you could probably handle more. Of course you can always upgrade the hardware or add servers to increase the limits."

When they say server hardware, what does this mean? We will be hosted first on a shared server. Within 3-4 months we will move to dedicated server. Our projections show that we will have more than 100 members and/or guests per hour on the site at the same time.

Can someone explain this info to me in simple terms. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
 
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south

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When they say server hardware, what does this mean? We will be hosted first on a shared server. Within 3-4 months we will move to dedicated server. Our projections show that we will have more than 100 members and/or guests per hour on the site at the same time.

Can someone explain this info to me in simple terms. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

It means just that. Server hardware. If you're running something on a pentium-2 400 MHZ with 64 MB of Ram, you can probably handle a few users, but if you're running a system with Multiple Xeon 3 GHZ processors & 16 GB of Ram, you might be able to handle hundreds or thousands.

Or another way.

You could probably tow a rowboat with a '94 ford escort, but tow a 40' Scarab with twin 454 engines with a F-450 diesel pickup. It just has more power.
 

emark

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Thanks for the explaination south.

Now, let me see if I have this right. Reference to the 'server hardware' is basically referring to the 'server specifications'. Right? Please say yes.

Sometimes it's a little difficult for me to understand things.
 
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Mark Talbot

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Expanded a bit,...

1 - shared server - basic server where many other websites coexist with yours on the same hardware - only recommended for the minimalist, and if your site becomes reasonably popular, you will fast find yourself with very slow pages being rendered. (can also happen if any of the other websites have heavy load, their usage slows your community down) - not recommended if you expect to have lotsa visitors.

2 - VPS server - still shared by definition, but far more processor and memory resources allocated. I run a few forums on one vps and have never had any loading issues. Then again, my most popular forum only has at best 15 to 20 visitors at any given moment. But I feel comfortable knowing I am likely good to 150 users at once.

3 - Dedicated server - this is the big dog, and the big expense. Your site will be the only one hosted on it. This recommended if you are constantly having 100 plus users online at once at all times. Most sites grow into this type, only after outgrowing a VPS.


There are bigger of course, arrangements, for the large enterprise websites.



Also you can consider the community software you are using. Some software like XMB is really light on the processor. vBulletin is considerably more complex, and as a result, uses more resources. The others are variances to the amount of processing required to render a page as well as how many queries to the database each page requires by the software to populate the variables.
 
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HarveyJ

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Do NOT run something like this on a shared server.
They'll get amazingly pissed at you for wasting the server resources, if it's even compatible which it may not be because you often need root access to run software like this and you rarely get it on a shared server, and then boot you off your plan, which they're in their right to do.
 

Mark Talbot

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While a VPS is technically a shared server, you still get complete root access and control.

But a basic ten-dollar a month server or whatnot, will be exactly like said in above post.
 

emark

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I really appreciate all the insight you guys/guyettes are giving me.

"The others are variances to the amount of processing required to render a page as well as how many queries to the database each page requires by the software to populate the variables."

smirkley, you're getting a little deep for me here. My role in this project is marketing. We have an intership program set up for the brains. But I want to have an idea of exactly what things are about.

Does the number of sites using a VPS server ever play into this? And what normally happens if you go over the amount of bandwith that's allocated to you? Should I be asking these questions to the hosting company?

The proposed hosting company offers two VPS plans. One is 20GB of disk space with 1,000GB of data transfer, and 128MB of memory. This one has a twelve month price of $49 a month.

The other is 60GB of disk space with 2,000GB of data transfer, and 512MB of memory. A 12 month price on the one is $89 a month.

The software company provides one year of free tech support.

Should a full blown community start with the smaller server allocation and work it's way up? When I refer to a full blown community, I'm talking about a community where users/members can have their own minisites with home pages, polls, surveys, and the ability to upload audio and video files. Sort of like an updated version of Geocities.

The market we're targeting is a niche market that should prove to be a fast growing market, with a large and very dedicated following. There is nothing like this available for this particular market. This market is definitely seeking a community of it's own. We've been tracking and experimenting with this market for the last ten years. The funding is here now and it's time to move.
 

steveatvillas

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Should a full blown community start with the smaller server allocation and work it's way up? When I refer to a full blown community, I'm talking about a community where users/members can have their own minisites with home pages, polls, surveys, and the ability to upload audio and video files. Sort of like an updated version of Geocities.

Uh, Rick, do you realise the kind of horsepower you're gonna need to run something like what you've just described? Are the audio/video files going to reside on a 3rd party server, like YouTube, or are you going to host them? Video chews through bytes...why do you think you can now routinely buy desktop computers with hot-swappable Terrabyte drives? You're gonna do this on 20GB of disk space or even 60GB? Man, if your thing takes off, you're gonna blow through 20GB in no time flat. And, on a shared server, like HarveyJ says, you are gonna have some steamed techies and co-users when their sites crawl to a standstill.

Have you bounced your idea off the hosting provider?

Have you looked at cloud computing? A great way to start...no sense in making a contract for mega service if your project is just getting off the ground.

Get a hold of RackSpace.com. They have amazing service and they won't mess you around by selling you more (or less) server load than you'll need, and their upgrade path is seamless.

Steve
 

Mark Talbot

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"The others are variances to the amount of processing required to render a page as well as how many queries to the database each page requires by the software to populate the variables."

We have an intership program set up for the brains. But I want to have an idea of exactly what things are about.

Does the number of sites using a VPS server ever play into this? And what normally happens if you go over the amount of bandwith that's allocated to you? Should I be asking these questions to the hosting company?


The software company provides one year of free tech support.

Should a full blown community start with the smaller server allocation and work it's way up? When I refer to a full blown community, I'm talking about a community where users/members can have their own minisites with home pages, polls, surveys, and the ability to upload audio and video files. Sort of like an updated version of Geocities.

The market we're targeting is a niche market that should prove to be a fast growing market, with a large and very dedicated following. There is nothing like this available for this particular market. This market is definitely seeking a community of it's own. We've been tracking and experimenting with this market for the last ten years. The funding is here now and it's time to move.


I will use myself for example,...

I use a VPS as my bandwidth needs are easily serviced by them. I use Servint servers as they provide several benefits I like. Like load balancing on a VPS so other sites popularity would have minimal impact on my sites ability to be available, seamless transition to expanded packages including fully managed servers if my demands ever warrant that. Plus tech support and off-site redundant backups if the event of recovery were ever needed. Mostly, I love their tech support, even at my level of use.

I try to aim for twice the server I need. The extra headroom will always provide if my site ever gets a heavy hit of traffic temporarily.

If I were to exceed my bandwidth allotments or CPU allotments , of course I can expect this to be applied to my monthly maintenance costs and it will be available transparantly, but I am prepared for that, and prepared to up my account requirements if I find I hit that level of overconsumption frequently.

Scalability is important to me, so that my visitors experience nothing more than a minimal temporary slowdown just prior to me upgrading my server package if I were to get to that level.


Community-based software tech support is of course always available for premium products, like the vBulletin I use, but be prepared to find yourself seeking external support for modifications that are not OEM.

And your internship should be well coordinated to make sure your site doesnt suffer from independant thoughts overwriting other independant thoughts, in the operation, maintenance, and management of the processes.


Just some thoughts from my perspective
 
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emark

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Have you bounced your idea off the hosting provider?

No steveatvillas, I haven't talked to the provider about it. The only thing I have personally discussed was to ask if there would be a problem having someone else install software. So far we've been trying to get familiar with what's going in until the internship program kicks off. Right about now, I'm thinking a dedicated, full time site admin has to figure into the plan before we go too far. It's good the pockets are deep for now.

I was thinking/hoping that the interns would know the answers, or at least know what to ask in order to get the answers. The deeper I go, the more I realize that we should reconsider what qualifications we want/need the interns to have.

In my naive mind I just figured we could pop in there and run the community on just this shared server we use now. That's what happens when trying operate outside your realm, and to save the pennies. Live and learn, and have access to people who know their stuff. That's probably why I do marketing.

It's beginning to look more and more like we should just buy our own server(s) or look deeper into 'cloud computing'. All this information is greatly appreciated.
------------------------------------------------------------------

cloud computing

And smirkley thank you for turning me on to cloud computing.

I had to look up it up to see what it is. That doesn't seem like a bad idea. It appears to mean that it's a 'pay as you go' setup, that gives you only what you need, when you need it. Is this correct? Sort of like you don't have a car, but when you want to go somewhere there's YellowCab to take you there and back. That way you don't need a car. Is this a Yellow Cab commercial?

What exactly should be considered before using a cloud computing service? Is it more cost effective than running your own servers? Or just more practical, especially with them offering a 'we manage it' service?

One of the RackSpace packages could be just what a man needs.

Mr Money Pockets is about to get squeezed a little tighter. This is giving me much more to consider. My head is spinning right about now.
 
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