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How NOT to sell a domain to a buyer like me

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DnPowerful

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On the heels of paying someone $50k for a domain and having them complain about their end of the escrow fee (WTF??!!), here is yet another self-aggrandizing idiot who is the new poster boy for "HOW NOT TO SELL A DOMAIN"

The domain owner: pussypictures.com, a generally okay domain for which I offered him $5k unsolicited. He agreed after a time.

Then I asked him for traffic. Just like a raft of other amateurs/morons/cheats, he told me "My stats are screwed up and I don't know why but here's what I got".

Folks, if I had a dime for every time some idiot said that to me, I start a swindle school and teach them how to do it properly (I'm being ironic, so there's no confusion). Why do people think that anyone would accept their own stats rather than audited ones?

Naturally, I tell him, gently, no can do, how 'bout your forward your domain to me for three days and we'll know for sure. Then I can make you the best offer rather than a lowball offer.

Fair enough, right?

His response: I want an offer from you *before* I forward because I don't want to lose the traffic. This is after he told me he figures he gets 20 or 30 uniques per day, hahahahaha!

I tell him forget it, keep your domain. That 30 uniques x three days equals at least a million dollars in ad revenue lost...lol

His response: He calls me a "****head", and then tells me he's "tired of people who don't know how to do business".

Yea, I know the feeling.

Let me offer this tip to those of you who want to make money in this business. Be firm but cordial. You don't make MORE money for being rude. You make less. Countless times, I've ended up spending big money on domains simply because somebody was professional and responsive. MANY times I have left the table because some guy has a good adult name and figures sitting behind a screen relieves him the obligation of any sort of decorum.

The word "weasel" comes to mind soooo often.

Permit me this indulgence, but I think we're creating an army of people who have done all their business from behind a screen and have no concept of handshakes and decency. I can't even imagine how anyone would think calling someone a "fu*khead" unprovoked would create an optimal situation for business.

Why can't everyone be like Safesys??:D
 
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bidawinner

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50k and whos paying escrow ! LOL..

He probably thinks your cheap..what you'll spend 50K for a domains but wont pay a few hundrd for escrow....F you ..LOLOLOLO

I just wrapped a sale and we didnt even discuss like transfer fees or anything..I'm the seller and it's like a courtesy thing I just covered it..

I hope the domains work well for him..and when I have others that fit his portfolio I know he'll at least take a look.

BID
 

DnPowerful

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I think it's only fair in every situation to assume a 50/50 split on escrow, and most of the people I consistently do business with, no matter what the transaction value, would never assume anything else unless there was a special situation.

$50k for a .net in this economy and then quibbling about a 50/50 split on escrow? Pretty incredible I think. Also very short-sighted as I'd never do business with him again.
 

DnPowerful

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Perhaps it's a generation gap, but a current deal-in-progress illustrates the other side of the coin.

I offered a women $5k for an adult domain. Cordially, she replied and declined. Over many subsequent emails, she declined, repeatedly. I kept pestering and apologizing for doing so. Maybe ten emails go by before she finally tells me her ideal price, a whopping $50k.

Now, if it weren't for many emails where she is cordial and professional, I would have said "Forget it." She offers me her phone number, and says "Let's try and work something out." She's a real estate agent in her forties in California and keeps saying "I don't need the money but maybe there's a solution."

I must say she is the slickest seller I have ever worked with. She has me actually thinking about paying $25k+ for this name, simply by being responsive but firm. She knows the name is a monster, and won't budge. I'm the one who's moving. But she never loses her cool with me, and does everything she can to move us closer together. That's creative dealmaking folks.

Now I ask you: Which person is more powerful? The one who calls you a "fu*khead" when they don't get their price, or the person who manages to kill you with kindness while subtly moving you up to their asking price?

People who don't operate in a higher orbit really have no clue how much business gets done because someone is graceful and resourceful. It doesn't stand in for a lousy domain, but if you have a terrific domain and a terrific attitude, you're guaranteed to get more money--and maybe more business over the long haul. Sadly, most owners of really good adult domains seem permanently embittered about the fact they haven't been offered $5 million and can't see the forest for the trees when Santa Claus (aka me) comes 'a knockin'.

If they only knew...
 

buddy

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Well it was his loss DN Powerful. He will realize it in due time. DN Powerful, if you offer 50k for any of my names, I will of course be in charge of paying for the escrow fee. Not only that you will have FREE escrow for life for all the domains you buy from me :D
 

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Something else to remember, is the person who offers you an insulting amount now - may be in a position to pay your asking price later (or may simply be playing the game with you now and willing to get much closer to your price than the level of their offer).

Just treat people how *you* would like to be treated yourself - online or offline and it makes for a better and more rewarding life.
 

DnPowerful

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My rant will end shortly (mercifully) but one more anecdote to show how long a little class goes.

A member of this very board screwed me out of a commission on a $125k sale of a list of names. The buyer was--and is--a big client of mine--and agreed that I had indeed been cut out. The seller (aka weasel) repeatedly turned me down when I asked him for a mere token amount--$1k--simply to illustrate to me that he knew which way the wind was blowing..an admission of guilt, if you will.

He refused. Prior to this deal, I had brought him a $60k buyer for one of his names...poof out of nowhere, he's $60k richer. It turns out he fudged some of the stats, and my buyer was awfully unhappy, but alas, the buyer and I worked it out. This is to say, the seller was overpaid--and knew it.

Now he's refusing me a token commission of $1k on a $125k sale that the buyer has admitted happened by cutting me out.

Just as a side note, the seller still has 4000 domains he wants to sell in future.

The buyer, being a man of his word and well aware of my value to him in the future, actually wires me $5k as a "thank you" and a "sorry".

Class act.

Meanwhile, the seller vehemently disagrees with me to this day that he cut me out.

Now which guy do you think I still get domains for and would go to the wall for, and which guy do I NEVER sell domains for?

Ya' see how it works higher up the food chain? Trust, trust, trust, with a huge dash of relationship mixed in.
 

hiOsilver

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DnPowerful:

Great advice. No matter how low an offer, I will not respond with an insult. If an offer is really low, I may ignore, but otherwise I find it best to politely decline. You never know when someone may change their mind and make you a real offer. Also, when someone says something negative ("Why are you holding this name for ransom? I thought that was outlawed"), I just try to come back with something to turn the conversation more positive. ("I invest in domain names. Generic names can be registered by anyone. If you don't want to spend a lot perhaps I can offer you a less expensive name than the one you inquired about.") :cool:
 

DnPowerful

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Well said. People don't realize that it's an angling game. Seller wants to see if you're easy money, and plays all the games. Perfectly understandable. You're feeling each other out. But so often sellers think feeling people out means putting hands on hips and screaming "How f****** insulting...I'd never take $3k, screw off." while not realizing that they're pissing off someone who might be prepared to pay their asking but is CLEARLY not going to offer it straight off.

I'm often on the other side, and am well aware of the dozens of wankers who come rolling in the door straight off the whois and say "How much?" without a name or contact info. But if you're smart and cordial, you simply don't reply, or if you feel good about someone, just write a short note that says "This is my asking price." It's not that complicated.

In the retail business, there's an adage that you often can't tell a pauper from a prince, so be nice to everyone. Why is this so confusing to domain owners? If someone includes a contact address and a phone number, you can assume they're less likely to waste your time than the rest who don't.
 

DnPowerful

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All business benefits in the long run from transparency, and the domain business is now in that stage. The adult business has the most transparency of any domain sector because of the importance of, and reliance on, key-ins. Adult owners of any power can almost all agree on how much they want to pay for how many key-ins, and are intimate with the vagaries of Overture and other tools which guess-timate type-ins.

My approach is simple: I tell sellers, "I will pay more for your domain than any other person on this planet, save for fools...and they don't pay as fast as me...:)

...so drop your conceits and your drawers, show me your stats, let me see the stats with my own eyes, and I will pay you more than anyone."

I even allow sellers to play my offer against others because I am so confident of my optimistic valuation of good adult names, that I know I will out pay most everyone.

Of course, transparency challenges the bullshitters. They'd rather b.s the numbers and hope you'll just pony up the $50k for crap. They'd rather insult you into giving them more.

It's amazing how often I will pay more because someone has gone to the trouble to actually understand the game, and convince me of the greater value of a name. Similarly, as a seller, I have done the same. There's simply no substitute for transparency.
 

ShaunP

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DnPowerful

You don't know me from Adam .. but I just want to say ... Great posts on this thread!
 

jalapeno

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Interesting commentary, and very true. Professionalism counts for a lot at any level of business, but particularly when there's a lot at stake. Many people seem to have the unfortunate predisposition to cutting their own throats - their loss.
 

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DNPowerful - I am with you. When somebody approaches me about a name I own and they offer an amount which I find unacceptable, I just reply, "No thank you, my target for this domain name is $xxxxxxx". More times than not, they come back and some sort of dialog is exchanged. Never do I insult people. Professionalism and sincerity is key in this game. I have found that out over the last 2 years. . .

If somebody asks for stats, I tell them what I measure. If they want to see for themselves, I offer to change teh DNS servers for 1-2 weeks or at least do a URL forward to whatever they want. Like it has been mentioned - you NEVER know who is on the other end and what they might be willing to spend for the domain name.

-Bob
 

fizz

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DnP you've given us some great advice about escrow.com and now some good lessons in this thread. A big thanks from me too.
 
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domainscot

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love the tread this guy talks the talk and walkes the walk
he is not a dobber like some folk in here
 

krisblade

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Yes, the Guru is right (as usual).

You can also give a good treatment to sellers with great names (not only to buyers). I have contacted the owner of a X domain name (generic, and with high traffic). I was aware that he will ask for a 5 to 6 figure amount, but I still start a negotiation with him.

It was a great negotiation, both of us very respectful one to other, and we also discuss the domain market, and share "development" experiences.

Finally he showed me his stats, (over 4k uniques a day) and then he asked a 6 figure amount. I told him that I can´t afford that much, so I wished the best of luck on his business.

After 2 days he contacted me again saying that he will sell the domain name to a X company in a couple of months, but in the meantime he will include any link or banner from my site, in order to send me some traffic, until the negotation/transfer ends.

Respect does not cost a penny, and pays very well.

PS: Forgive my poor english :)
 

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This thread reminds of of something I saw some time back.

A (very well known) domainer used to take pride in sending back really abusive emails to people who approached over his names at low prices. I saw the emails for 2 domains that were sent and it made me cringe.

fast forward a year or 2 and the names have been won by those people who approached him at udrp - and they were generic.

Those emails came back to haunt him in a big way and impacted on other parts of his business.

Being professional and polite can make sales that would not have happened otherwise, all being abusive does is create enemies - and in the domainworld that can be costly.
 
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mole

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Hey DN, you remind me of Rick, the way you post sometimes. Were you both from the same school? :weird:
 

DnPowerful

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I AM Rick....but with a sense of humour attached. :razz:
 

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Originally posted by DnPowerful
Well said. People don't realize that it's an angling game. Seller wants to see if you're easy money, and plays all the games. Perfectly understandable. You're feeling each other out. But so often sellers think feeling people out means putting hands on hips and screaming "How f****** insulting...I'd never take $3k, screw off." while not realizing that they're pissing off someone who might be prepared to pay their asking but is CLEARLY not going to offer it straight off.


agree with this, I recently approached a buyer who had been trying to sell a name for a while, wasn't an amazing name but one that I like. I offered about 20% of his asking price only to be responded to with a very rude reply, truth is if he had bothered to make a counter offer, rather than a very unprofessional reply he may well have had a sale.
 
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