Nude Kings: banker.com "it did not sell.....want it?"

[Duke]

As I mentioned in my last post, I dropped a note to the Sedo broker (Greg Manriquez) who is representing Larry Klapow (owner of banker.com) to see if he could answer a couple of questions for me. I wanted to give him 24 hours to respond before posting again. I haven't heard back from him but that's not a surprise. He may not have gotten the message and even if he did, as the broker for this domain, it's unlikely he would comment on negotiations that I am told are ongoing (I talked with Greg at Traffic and sales confidentiality was the main thing we talked about, so if he has to remain mum until this is concluded one way or the other I understand his position). I did receive quick responses to my inquiries from both Rick Schwartz and Larry Klapow but before I get to that, l'll address the key point as far as DNJournal is concerned and that is why I thought this sale had already been completed.

The sale was announced from the podium at Traffic on Friday Oct. 22. The auctions there primarily involved buyers and sellers who were conference registrants and the $41,000 price (which was the minimum bid set on the auction board) seemed reasonable so no one was surprised by it (in addition both the buyer and seller's representative were at the site where the announcement was made). Even so, I routinely check WhoIs records when compiling our weekly report on Tuesdays, using Internic.net. When I looked this one up on Tue. Oct. 26 it showed an update to the record on Oct.23, the day after the sale was announced. The registrant details were not shown, but assuming the update reflected the sale I moved on to check on the hundreds of other sales I sift through each week. If I had gone to a second WhoIs source on that domain and found Mr. Klapow still listed as the registrant, this sale would not have been listed in DNJournal. So the fact that it got in was my mistake. I am very diligent about checking on reported sales but I have no illusions that I will ever achieve 100% perfection in the process (even though that is the goal).

This thread was the first I heard about a problem developing with the sale. I emailed Rick Schwartz about it last night and he replied that he could not comment on it at this time because a negotiation involving banker.com and other domains was currently underway. He said he had not informed me that the sale had not been completed because after the announcement at Traffic some things were still up in the air and he wanted to wait until it was all sorted out. I also emailed Larry Klapow, the current registrant, and he told me he didn't know why the sale hasn't been completed but referred me to Greg at Sedo as the person who was handling negotiations for the domain (and was the one who put it on the auction board at Traffic). In the meantime Klapow is continuing to listen to offers for the domain (which I think any of us would do in this situation). Klapow is not a domainer. He is an executive for Coldwell Banker so he sought out Sedo to help him sell the domain. That is where it stands at the moment. Only Schwartz and Manriquez know the details about what is currently being discussed. I did notice that neither side seems to be at all upset with the other, so it doesn't look like either party feels like they have a gripe with the other.

However it plays out, the fact remains that the domain should not be listed on our charts until it changes hands. We set that rule this spring to put everyone on an even playing field. If someone is selling a major domain in installments we might report such a deal has been announced but we would not chart it until the last payment is in and the domain has changed hands. A lot of people buying and selling domains wouldn't know that is our policy so it is up to me to check the domains out and make sure those terms are met before we report them. I don't like seeing one get by me but I am glad when it is brought to my attention because we all want the same thing, a report that is as accurate as humanly possible. To address this situation I have posted a note at the beginning of the Oct. 26 column about this domain being removed from our charts. It will be returned when and if the deal is finalized and the domain transferred.

 

[bocajohnh]

Before anyone from either side of this argument begins picking apart Mr. Jackson's posting, remember...

He's the only press we've got in this business, so show some respect to him.

 

[Ed30]

It goes to show that Duke doesn't make too many mistakes - when he does we end up with a five page thread :-D

 

[MediaHound]

@ BocaJohn - Agreed,
We all need to understand the following:
Hearing news about domain sales is a privledge.
Most sales are not reported.
With that in mind, our business is one where it's not mandatory that sales be reported, recorded, or exposed in any way.
Keep your opinions to yourself and if you don't have anyhing nice to say, then don't say anything at all.
Considering Ron's explanation of his reporting standards, I think some people deserve apologies.

 

[GeorgeK]

Keep your opinions to yourself and if you don't have anyhing nice to say, then don't say anything at all.

haha What country are you from? This isn't some middle east monarchy, we live in a free society. The world would be a scary place if negative but true events, could not be discussed.

Even in the 'best case scenario', a completed deal did not occur, as it's "still being negotiated, along with other names". The story was simply wrong.

DNJournal might be *your* only news source, but certainly others are better informed.

Sincerely,

George

P.S. It's no crime to have a blog. Millions of people do. Even Google and other corporations have them. Mine is a pretty dull one. arty: You won't find any trade secrets there...those are reserved for my buddy list.

 

[Duke]

Once again I ask all you guys why someone like Schwartz would fake this purchase when $41K is almost like pettycash to him?

I hate to dash all of the wildly entertaining conspiracy theories but you are right trader. Absolutely nothing would be accomplished by purposely faking a $41,000 sale in the current market (especially for a good name like banker.com). Sales at that level have been practically a weekly occurrence this year. It looks to me like a complicating factor of some kind arose after the sale was announced. They appear to be trying to work whatever that is out. Since both the buyer and seller's rep were on hand for the announcement it would seem apparent that they thought it was a done deal.

 

[David G]

.....Klapow is not a domainer. He is an executive for Coldwell Banker.......

Did not know that. Interesting and raises several possibilities. These are merely speculations on my part...

(A) Perhaps the Board of Directors or CEO had to approve the sale and they have said no or delayed the issue.

(B) Possible Mr Klapow forgot the corporate need to get the sale approved.

(B) Perhaps Coldwell Banker had claimed a trademark on the domain or filed for a TM, and that issue came up later and needs to be addressed.

There are aso other possibilities.

Again, I say $41K means little to Schwartz and even less to a giant Realtor firm. Why would domainking *not* buy the name for $41K when it is such a low price? I certainly would grab it for that low price if I was able to do so financially.

 

[Ed30]

It seems to me that this whole thread is based on speculation rather than substance. The respective parties have put their position forward. I am sure all will be revealed in the end. How about we just wait and see before throwing our weight around. The saying "Life's too short" comes to mind.

 

[ShaunP]

It seems to me that this whole thread is based on speculation rather than substance. The respective parties have put their position forward. I am sure all will be revealed in the end. How about we just wait and see before throwing our weight around. The saying "Life's too short" comes to mind.

Ed30 ... the saying that comes to mind for me in this thread is "get a life". What a waste of time and energy. Unbeleivable!

Shaun

 

[jberryhill]

The conference organizers provided a blank whiteboard for attendees to use to buy and sell domain names at auction. I am not aware of any domain names being advertised before the conference, or of any specific promises of sales that would be made there. How was that bait?

Seriously. Out of three days, this whole thing occupied about two minutes of time during dinner. Riding in the airport shuttle with chatcher was more of a draw.

Jeez, if I thought I could get that many people to pay and show up to see, what was it, ten domain names sold for chump change, just wait until I throw my conference where I will invite attendees to come watch me sand wallboard joint compound.

On the disclaimer/disclosure issue, George has permitted me to state that I have worked for him. If nothing else, I think that should make it clear that I post on these forums in a personal capacity.

 

[mole]

It does seem clear the seller for banker.com was expecting much more than just the starting bid given that this was supposed to be a conference of moneyed domainers. DK just took on the starting bid to get things moving.

Problem was, no one else did. Ain't a surprise really, the days of funny money and $7m share options for business.com are long gone.

A lot of generic names just lie in the PPC graveyard collecting chump change as the crows fly above.

 

[Duke]

It seems to me that this whole thread is based on speculation rather than substance. The respective parties have put their position forward. I am sure all will be revealed in the end.

Yes, right now as a matter of fact. As I conjectured in my last post, it was considered to be a done deal and then a complicating factor arose soon after the announcement - one that even the wildest eyed conspiracy theorists in this thread would never have guessed. A few hours ago, just as I was heading out the door for the evening I got a note from Sedo CEO Matt Bentley filling me in on what happened.

After the deal was announced at Traffic and they were working out the payment details as well as talking about some other domains, Sedo broker Greg Manriquez unexpectedly left the company! Both Rick Schwartz and Larry Klapow suddenly weren't hearing from him. Matt Bentley had left Traffic and gone directly to the West Coast on business (rather than back to the Sedo office in Boston) so he wasn't aware this deal had been left in the lurch. When he found out he got Schwartz and Klapow both on the phone today and told them what had happened. Bentley told me everything is back on track now and all details have been agreed on by the two parties who are moving forward with the deal. Schwartz plans to have the name transferred to him (and out of NetSol) afer making payment after the weekend. It could take a week or two for the WhoIs record to reflect the change but Bentley assured me that is on the way. When that happens I will re-enter Banker.com on our charts. End of story.

 

[mole]

When that happens I will re-enter Banker.com on our charts. End of story.

Aiyayaah, party poofer :-D

 

[GeorgeK]

Good to see that pointing a flashlight on this has made the right thing happen. arty:

 

[Duke]

I need to make one more comment on this topic. Last night I realized that I missed a very important point about this matter. It occurred to me when I reread a post someone made on another forum saying "a sale should not be announced from the podium until it is completed". I agreed, but after reading it a second time it dawned on me that a sale was not announced from the podium. The auctions had just ended a couple of hours before the dinner (there would have been no time to complete payment and transfer of a five figure domain name). What they announced were the auction winners. I am the one who concluded that the sale was completed when I saw the WhoIs record change at Internic.net on the following Tuesday. The first Schwartz would have seen of it was when the sale column was published (assuming he reads the column which I do not know to be the case). Even then, he may not of known of our policy of not reporting sales until a transfer has been made (an internal rule we put into place last spring) in which case he had no reason to contact me about my report unless the sale fell through. In view of that I feel I owe him an apology for contributing to the perception that he misled the press. In fact he did nothing wrong at all.

 

[chatcher]

A lot of generic names just lie in the PPC graveyard collecting chump change as the crows fly above.

Well, one man's chump change is another man's livelihood. Those generic names are pointing to PPC content because it is so profitable, and because nobody with development plans has been willing to pay the owners enough to compensate them for the loss of the steady stream of income.

In the case of banker.com, here is someone with a lot of mainly PPC websites buying a generic name from what appears to be an end user company (who failed to capitalize on the inherent value of the name). I wouldn't be surprised to see it change to a PPC landing page. Everyone I know who makes a living from PPC income is currently acquiring more domain names, rather than selling or developing. They are not fools, and their behavior should tell us something.

We are in a period of change, during which the people with the most optimistic view of domain name valuation are busy gathering up all the underpriced names they can find, both from current owners and from daily drops, and adding them to their ever-expanding portfolios. They aren't using funny money, they are using the checks coming in every month from their current collection of names. They may think the true value of their names will someday be recognized by the rest of the world, and that they will eventually sell for a huge profit, but it really doesn't matter because they will be earning continuous revenue on those names. This period cannot last forever, because they can't conceal the amount of money they are making from their names. The companies writing the checks also know, and some of them are starting to actively accumulate domain names. It's just a matter of time before the advertisers themselves get a clue about where their money is going, and adjust their own notions of domain name value.

 

[URLCollection]

It's just a matter of time before the advertisers themselves get a clue about where their money is going, and adjust their own notions of domain name value.

Chuck - some of the larger website developers have been doing just that for years. We have one client that is in the Travel Industry and last I knew he had over 2500 travel related keyword domains aimed at one site. Another one is in the electronics business and they have well over 1000 electronic keyword domains aimed at their site. Both clients "do not" buy clicks on any search engines - they buy domains and run SEO on their sites. I know a broker that rents out their keyword domains on a monthly basis to clients for the traffic alone and "has never" run a PPC program (they own over 15K domains) Some folks are "all over" the value of great keyword domains without involving any PPC business. Steve

 

[chatcher]

Chuck - some of the larger website developers have been doing just that for years.

I know what you say is true - my point is that contrary to what some may think, domain names pointed to PPC landing pages are in many cases making a lot of money for their owners.

 

[URLCollection]

I know what you say is true - my point is that contrary to what some may think, domain names pointed to PPC landing pages are in many cases making a lot of money for their owners.

You bet Chuck - PPC pays the light bill and more for many folks in this industry. Most companies now know what a solid keyword domain name is worth and what it can do for them, as well. Steve

 

[chatcher]

...Most companies now know what a solid keyword domain name is worth and what it can do for them, as well. Steve

In my opinion, "most" is overstating it. I would go along with "many". But whichever is correct, there are a whole lot of companies out there who still don't have a clue.