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cctld Today's TBR
- Thread starter lotsofcoffee
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I'd suggested this in the other thread.
To the POOL folks. I'd say its in your best interest to find out what others companies had problems connecting to the TBR. If other companies had issues that would likely make some people feel better about the situation.
To the POOL folks. I'd say its in your best interest to find out what others companies had problems connecting to the TBR. If other companies had issues that would likely make some people feel better about the situation.
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MISTAKE BY A REGISTRAR - CIRA said all systems GO on thier end - to Date POOL is the ONLY known registrar that crapped out
POOL should MAN UP and tell CIRA to let the results stand
POOL should MAN UP and tell CIRA to let the results stand
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Latest registrar advisory... Hot off the presses...
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dear Registrars,
Further to the Registrar Advisory that was sent to you last evening, I wanted to provide you with an interim update on TBR. As promised, you can expect to receive a document by close of business Friday that clarifies the use of fields to assure full participation in the December 1, 2010 TBR session.
The decision to cancel TBR yesterday was not made lightly and involved a great deal of consultation with our technical staff who reviewed in detail the results of the TBR session. They used previously established protocols that have been followed in past instances when we have cancelled TBR. Based on this analysis, we determined that the session was not fair and equitable across the entire TBR Registrar community.
The errors that occurred were not connection-related (ability to reach TBR), but rather related to the integrity of the transactions themselves (incorrect data). It appears that the Registrars who were not able to participate in TBR may have arrived at a reasonable, although mistaken, interpretation of the TBR rules. Although unconfirmed, it seems possible that they may have applied updated principles that are now present in the new EPP registry to the TBR system even though that system did not change as part of the rewrite. Regrettably, the wording that CIRA used to instruct Registrars around the use of fields could be reasonably interpreted in more than one way.
It is important to note that this issue was not restricted to only one Registrar. A clear pattern was seen across a number of Registrars.
The only fair way to deal with this situation was to cancel TBR. Ultimately, this decision protects Canadians who wish to register a .CA. For those Registrants whose Registrar was among those who could not participate in this TBR session, we have assured their right to equal opportunity to this public resource.
I also want to stress that for security purposes, much of the relevant data of the Registrar login information is encrypted. Because of this, and depending on which command type was used, we cannot specifically identify affected Registrars, however we do know that between three to seven Registrars could not participate in TBR.
When you receive tomorrowâs documentation, please take great care in following the instructions which clarify the use of fields to ensure you can participate in TBR. Registrars that fail to follow these clarifications will not be able to successfully participate in TBR.
CIRA will again be offering Registrars the opportunity to test your system in the TBR environment.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dear Registrars,
Further to the Registrar Advisory that was sent to you last evening, I wanted to provide you with an interim update on TBR. As promised, you can expect to receive a document by close of business Friday that clarifies the use of fields to assure full participation in the December 1, 2010 TBR session.
The decision to cancel TBR yesterday was not made lightly and involved a great deal of consultation with our technical staff who reviewed in detail the results of the TBR session. They used previously established protocols that have been followed in past instances when we have cancelled TBR. Based on this analysis, we determined that the session was not fair and equitable across the entire TBR Registrar community.
The errors that occurred were not connection-related (ability to reach TBR), but rather related to the integrity of the transactions themselves (incorrect data). It appears that the Registrars who were not able to participate in TBR may have arrived at a reasonable, although mistaken, interpretation of the TBR rules. Although unconfirmed, it seems possible that they may have applied updated principles that are now present in the new EPP registry to the TBR system even though that system did not change as part of the rewrite. Regrettably, the wording that CIRA used to instruct Registrars around the use of fields could be reasonably interpreted in more than one way.
It is important to note that this issue was not restricted to only one Registrar. A clear pattern was seen across a number of Registrars.
The only fair way to deal with this situation was to cancel TBR. Ultimately, this decision protects Canadians who wish to register a .CA. For those Registrants whose Registrar was among those who could not participate in this TBR session, we have assured their right to equal opportunity to this public resource.
I also want to stress that for security purposes, much of the relevant data of the Registrar login information is encrypted. Because of this, and depending on which command type was used, we cannot specifically identify affected Registrars, however we do know that between three to seven Registrars could not participate in TBR.
When you receive tomorrowâs documentation, please take great care in following the instructions which clarify the use of fields to ensure you can participate in TBR. Registrars that fail to follow these clarifications will not be able to successfully participate in TBR.
CIRA will again be offering Registrars the opportunity to test your system in the TBR environment.
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Agree'd! Best post on the whole situation. This situation can not easily be controlled at this point and with 35k domains dropping, why are we all fighting over the same stuff? Either that or CIRA should be them up for auction themselves...this is so flawed.
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- Jul 26, 2004
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An abhorrent amount of BS and a pitiful attempt by cira and pool to cover up the scandalous decision that happened yesterday.
"we cannot specifically identify affected Registrars" LOL
That's all you came out with Richard?
Hiding behind an encrypted data?
LOL
The good news for CIRA and Pool is that we managed to break their encryption and identified the affected registrars. Here is a hint:
They are not sibername, baremetal, egate, myid, namespro, burmac, fastweb, or canspace.
They are internic.ca, rebel.ca, and then tens of registrars owned by Momentous.ca.
And FYI to CIRA...If you look hard enough you will find that the affected registrars are dozens and not 3-7.
Straightforward BS to cover up the scandalous decision of yesterday.
Now based on Canspace reply earlier today, it seems the only thing that was different TBR wise from the pre EPP era is that each registrar uses a unique IP.
Based on that, this must be the reason why pool failed yesterday as whatever code they used before would still work. In other words, no new scripts are needed.
The only thing they had to do was use a unique IP for each of their dozens of registrars.
It seems they did not.
And because of that, CIRA decided to spit at all other registrars, and all registrants that have wasted huge amounts of time on this matter week after week.
If this is not flagrant mismanagement, then what is?
So the question here is: Are we dealing with incompetence, recklessness, or malice?
Incompetence is basically when someone tries to do a job that they cannot do well.
Recklessness is when someone makes a stupid decision without understanding its consequences and end up causing harm to themselves and/or others. Example: reckless driving.
Malice is when someone makes an informed decision with the intent to cause harm.
There was definite incompetence from Pool side.
But CIRA role in this is nothing less than malice. They intentionally made an unjustifiable decision the sole purpose of which is to steal from the pockets of all registrars to stuff Richard's pockets. This is malicious intent.
Not to mention all the violations of the anti competitiveness rules of canada.
CIRA's decision yesterday and their laughable attempt at a coverup will end up being the first nail in the coffin of the current management. This is a flagrant misuse of a public national asset with the clear intent to benefit from it while depriving others of fair competition.
Now that all is in the open and we have zero doubt of what has happened, how do we get Industry Canada to investigate?
If you have any info in that regard but do not want to post, please PM me with any info you may have.
"we cannot specifically identify affected Registrars" LOL
That's all you came out with Richard?
Hiding behind an encrypted data?
LOL
The good news for CIRA and Pool is that we managed to break their encryption and identified the affected registrars. Here is a hint:
They are not sibername, baremetal, egate, myid, namespro, burmac, fastweb, or canspace.
They are internic.ca, rebel.ca, and then tens of registrars owned by Momentous.ca.
And FYI to CIRA...If you look hard enough you will find that the affected registrars are dozens and not 3-7.
Straightforward BS to cover up the scandalous decision of yesterday.
Now based on Canspace reply earlier today, it seems the only thing that was different TBR wise from the pre EPP era is that each registrar uses a unique IP.
Based on that, this must be the reason why pool failed yesterday as whatever code they used before would still work. In other words, no new scripts are needed.
The only thing they had to do was use a unique IP for each of their dozens of registrars.
It seems they did not.
And because of that, CIRA decided to spit at all other registrars, and all registrants that have wasted huge amounts of time on this matter week after week.
If this is not flagrant mismanagement, then what is?
So the question here is: Are we dealing with incompetence, recklessness, or malice?
Incompetence is basically when someone tries to do a job that they cannot do well.
Recklessness is when someone makes a stupid decision without understanding its consequences and end up causing harm to themselves and/or others. Example: reckless driving.
Malice is when someone makes an informed decision with the intent to cause harm.
There was definite incompetence from Pool side.
But CIRA role in this is nothing less than malice. They intentionally made an unjustifiable decision the sole purpose of which is to steal from the pockets of all registrars to stuff Richard's pockets. This is malicious intent.
Not to mention all the violations of the anti competitiveness rules of canada.
CIRA's decision yesterday and their laughable attempt at a coverup will end up being the first nail in the coffin of the current management. This is a flagrant misuse of a public national asset with the clear intent to benefit from it while depriving others of fair competition.
Now that all is in the open and we have zero doubt of what has happened, how do we get Industry Canada to investigate?
If you have any info in that regard but do not want to post, please PM me with any info you may have.
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- Dec 22, 2005
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Strategies of an auction scenario:
1. Snipe - at the last minute over-bid what you think you can get something for and you have a good chance to win without anybody getting the chance to overbid you.
2. Hidden Max - usually the person currently "winning" the auction has a hidden max bid that makes it harder for someone to snipe. Without knowing how much you put in as your max amount and the ability that they might only have one chance to out-bid you - unless they have unlimited funds, it will be hard to guess a low enough number to outbid you without them spending more than what they wanted.
3. Limited availability - part of what makes an auction, an auction, is that items offered are either in limited demand or below usual cost. This could also be the number of people involved in an auction.
So these are some key points of what I think of when I see auctions at TBR. Being that the TBR was canceled numerous times, go back through these 3 steps and then think about what happens when you "pre-run" an auction and everyone gets to see what the outcome was. And for those situations where a "pre-run" didn't take place, but just the straight "acquisition" of the commodity (a domain); three weeks ago when you were the only one who wanted that domain at a certain registrar and could've had it. Keep running through these 3 scenarios and look at all of the situations that come to light.
Do you see any problems?...Imagine if eBay operated in this matter (or the users on eBay)!
Now, think about the solution to this problem. What is the solution? There isn't one (currently)! They will just re-do everything again. How does this make it fair? And to make it fair for some people and now it becomes unfair for others - what are the legal ramifications of this? Do registrars get better treatment than registrants because they pay more fees? Where's the trade-off?...
1. Snipe - at the last minute over-bid what you think you can get something for and you have a good chance to win without anybody getting the chance to overbid you.
2. Hidden Max - usually the person currently "winning" the auction has a hidden max bid that makes it harder for someone to snipe. Without knowing how much you put in as your max amount and the ability that they might only have one chance to out-bid you - unless they have unlimited funds, it will be hard to guess a low enough number to outbid you without them spending more than what they wanted.
3. Limited availability - part of what makes an auction, an auction, is that items offered are either in limited demand or below usual cost. This could also be the number of people involved in an auction.
So these are some key points of what I think of when I see auctions at TBR. Being that the TBR was canceled numerous times, go back through these 3 steps and then think about what happens when you "pre-run" an auction and everyone gets to see what the outcome was. And for those situations where a "pre-run" didn't take place, but just the straight "acquisition" of the commodity (a domain); three weeks ago when you were the only one who wanted that domain at a certain registrar and could've had it. Keep running through these 3 scenarios and look at all of the situations that come to light.
Do you see any problems?...Imagine if eBay operated in this matter (or the users on eBay)!
Now, think about the solution to this problem. What is the solution? There isn't one (currently)! They will just re-do everything again. How does this make it fair? And to make it fair for some people and now it becomes unfair for others - what are the legal ramifications of this? Do registrars get better treatment than registrants because they pay more fees? Where's the trade-off?...
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2006
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Funny that CIRA says they did it to protect the consumer who may have chosen to use an affected registrar to order a tbr domain. What about the consumers who chose to use other registrars and got the domains they wanted? Do they not matter? How about when we use a registrar and their website goes down before the drop (this does happen!) - did CIRA run the drop again for those poor schmucks... of course they didn't.
The majority got it right and now it's time for Industry Canada to weigh in. The fault was with the registrars and NOT the registry - the drop was valid!
The majority got it right and now it's time for Industry Canada to weigh in. The fault was with the registrars and NOT the registry - the drop was valid!
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- Jul 26, 2004
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- 0
Having had some additional time to think about this, I am now 100% certain that we are dealing with a malicious decision by CIRA to protect the interests of Momentous at the expense of all other registrars . The extremely incompetent attempt at coverup removed the tiny doubt that was there. It is extremely easy to shred this last advisory to pieces.
This is a real problem and a serious issue that needs to be investigated ASAP by both CIRA and Industry Canada. As CIRA stands to lose the most from this, we urge them to start their own investigation immediately and while the investigation is ongoing, Nov 24 results should not be messed with. Otherwise, and in case any wrongdoing is unveiled, serious damages will be levied and would be due to all affected registrars. If Dec 1 goes through, all affected registrars are encouraged to compare results and any name they lost to Pool they should be compensated for with interest. Anyone that has backorders with Pool is encouraged to post the final sale price of the auctions they were involved in with Pool so that the affected registrars can calculate the exact amount they lost in this debacle. This will be important to calculate damages as accurately as possible.
CIRA was created to manage and regulate the .ca space for all canadians not just for Momentous.
With this scandal, whoever made that decision to cancel and whoever was involved in the wording of their advisories, has made it clear to all that CIRA (Canadian Internet Regulation Authority) has actually become MIRA (Momentous Internet Regulation Authority) or RIRA (Richard Internet Regulation Authority). Anyone involved in the decision to cancel Nov 24 session must be dealt with appropriately by CIRA. CIRA should make its own investigation. Industry Canada should investigate as well.
The .ca domain is a national public asset and this flagrant abuse of authority should not pass.
We call on all to get involved and reach out to Industry Canada to start an investigation in what happened the late hours of Nov 24.
It is extremely important that every affected registrar keeps all their data from Nov 24 TBR session as this will likely turn invaluable to an investigation once it starts.
In an earlier post, Richard mentioned that the Nov 24 preliminary results are accessible. How can we see these results? Please PM me. If anyone had access to these results, please take screenshots anmd document as much as possible.
The various PMs and emails I received on the subject highlight the tremendous amount of concern many people are having with this matter. The interesting part is that many have been well aware of the flagrant conflict of interest that is happening between CIRA and Momentum. It is time to address the elephant in the room.
Please get involved and contact industry canada seeking an investigation.
http://www.dnforum.com/f510/industry-canada-start-investigation-cira-thread-439551.html
Every cent that Pool makes on Wednesday is money they should not have and dollars they are not entitled to. This is as illegal as it gets and should not be allowed to stand. Had the same scenario happened to any of the other registrars, CIRA would have just said tough luck. The special treatment Momentous has received cries against all rules of fairness and impartiality and is nothing less than a disgrace.
If I were Richard, I would make the decision to voluntarily not participate in Dec 1, 2010 TBR. In the long scheme of things, this would turn into a very very wise decision.
Please take a minute and contact Industry Canada and let them know in no uncertain terms that the .ca domain is a public asset that should not succumb to corporate greed.
http://www.dnforum.com/f510/industry-canada-start-investigation-cira-thread-439551.html
If you know any lawyer with expertise in this field and who would be interested in assisting, please either post or pm me their info.
This is a real problem and a serious issue that needs to be investigated ASAP by both CIRA and Industry Canada. As CIRA stands to lose the most from this, we urge them to start their own investigation immediately and while the investigation is ongoing, Nov 24 results should not be messed with. Otherwise, and in case any wrongdoing is unveiled, serious damages will be levied and would be due to all affected registrars. If Dec 1 goes through, all affected registrars are encouraged to compare results and any name they lost to Pool they should be compensated for with interest. Anyone that has backorders with Pool is encouraged to post the final sale price of the auctions they were involved in with Pool so that the affected registrars can calculate the exact amount they lost in this debacle. This will be important to calculate damages as accurately as possible.
CIRA was created to manage and regulate the .ca space for all canadians not just for Momentous.
With this scandal, whoever made that decision to cancel and whoever was involved in the wording of their advisories, has made it clear to all that CIRA (Canadian Internet Regulation Authority) has actually become MIRA (Momentous Internet Regulation Authority) or RIRA (Richard Internet Regulation Authority). Anyone involved in the decision to cancel Nov 24 session must be dealt with appropriately by CIRA. CIRA should make its own investigation. Industry Canada should investigate as well.
The .ca domain is a national public asset and this flagrant abuse of authority should not pass.
We call on all to get involved and reach out to Industry Canada to start an investigation in what happened the late hours of Nov 24.
It is extremely important that every affected registrar keeps all their data from Nov 24 TBR session as this will likely turn invaluable to an investigation once it starts.
In an earlier post, Richard mentioned that the Nov 24 preliminary results are accessible. How can we see these results? Please PM me. If anyone had access to these results, please take screenshots anmd document as much as possible.
The various PMs and emails I received on the subject highlight the tremendous amount of concern many people are having with this matter. The interesting part is that many have been well aware of the flagrant conflict of interest that is happening between CIRA and Momentum. It is time to address the elephant in the room.
Please get involved and contact industry canada seeking an investigation.
http://www.dnforum.com/f510/industry-canada-start-investigation-cira-thread-439551.html
Every cent that Pool makes on Wednesday is money they should not have and dollars they are not entitled to. This is as illegal as it gets and should not be allowed to stand. Had the same scenario happened to any of the other registrars, CIRA would have just said tough luck. The special treatment Momentous has received cries against all rules of fairness and impartiality and is nothing less than a disgrace.
If I were Richard, I would make the decision to voluntarily not participate in Dec 1, 2010 TBR. In the long scheme of things, this would turn into a very very wise decision.
Please take a minute and contact Industry Canada and let them know in no uncertain terms that the .ca domain is a public asset that should not succumb to corporate greed.
http://www.dnforum.com/f510/industry-canada-start-investigation-cira-thread-439551.html
If you know any lawyer with expertise in this field and who would be interested in assisting, please either post or pm me their info.
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Peeps, for full discolosure, I only back ordered at Pool and would have been affected by this. I didnt think there were amazing names in the drop but based on all this fuss, I will look again 
Everyone has the right to be upset, but lets not make this about Pool please...as if they are the bad guy in a sea of saints. All my interactions with them have been good, and if they developed a good business model and were successful at it, good for them. There should be a review of all registrars, what does it mean to be one, and how do you make sure its fair, etc...I bet you the other registrars are the ones who are now hoping none of this came to light...not Pool.
Everyone has the right to be upset, but lets not make this about Pool please...as if they are the bad guy in a sea of saints. All my interactions with them have been good, and if they developed a good business model and were successful at it, good for them. There should be a review of all registrars, what does it mean to be one, and how do you make sure its fair, etc...I bet you the other registrars are the ones who are now hoping none of this came to light...not Pool.
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^ as much of what ? This situation or what it should take to be a registrar, what services should be provided to be a valid registrar, and at what price...or how TBR names should be priced. If we are asking for things to "come to light" then everything should come to light. If you are a registrar, I would be careful because you might get you what you wish for. I do not know what registrar you operate Canspace jftr.
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As much of whatever you'd like to know... there is no funny business going on here, so I'm not particularly concerned about being careful what I wish for.
My biggest concern at the moment is figuring out what went on Wednesday.
Another legitimate question is if the data CIRA is looking at is "encrypted", and only 3-7 registrars were affected, what if they were all really the same entity (and their "shill" bidders)?
My biggest concern at the moment is figuring out what went on Wednesday.
Another legitimate question is if the data CIRA is looking at is "encrypted", and only 3-7 registrars were affected, what if they were all really the same entity (and their "shill" bidders)?
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You might be in the minority. I am less concerned about Wednesday because I think its a symptom of a much larger issue. The TBR has not been running for months...another week is not going to kill anyone. I want the review to be much more comprehensive and address the fundamental issues.
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Fun as it is to believe such things, I really don't think Wednesday was some small conspiracy part of a larger overall registrar/CIRA conspiracy which was ultimately part of an even larger global conspiracy to take over the world.
I'd be more than happy with a complete explanation for Wednesday.
I'd be more than happy with a complete explanation for Wednesday.
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Wzhxvy - why should Wednesday's drop have been reversed if according to CIRA nothing was technically wrong? The fault was with the registrar(s) and not the registry itself. We've all ordered domains at registrars who at one time or another failed to connect to the tbr system on a given week - never did CIRA run it again for them. The rules/regulations/requirements were clear and the majority of registrars got it right and had more than ample time to ensure they would before Wednesday.
If this was a technical issue with CIRA - that would not have been fair to the registrars, but that is not the case here. IMO Wednesday's TBR session was valid and CIRA should release the domains as they were so we can all move on.
If this was a technical issue with CIRA - that would not have been fair to the registrars, but that is not the case here. IMO Wednesday's TBR session was valid and CIRA should release the domains as they were so we can all move on.
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