Got a C&D from NYC

[JMJ]

Actually John was being a lawyer and I'm quite sure he knew how he was asking the question. My domain is generic because it's four letters that include the .info extension. As far as DNQuest is concerned there is no difference in what he has and what I have. Both are four letter domains (in his case four letter words) with trademarks. I have done nothing that bears any association with the trademark in question. So why is it that my case is so different?

I seriously don't grasp the concept. Lets use mine, yours, or any cities fire department as an example. Mine uses NFD as their acronym. Now first of all I'd be rather ticked if they spent tax payers money to trademark their acronym and then to start utilizing even more of the tax payers money to defend that trademark. What makes NYC's fire department different than any other? Apparently it wasn't because of the attack so what was their thinking?

All of them have the same job it just happens to be a bigger city. All of them raise funds for whatever they raise them for. Whats next the IRS and FBI trademarking thier acronyms? There's ALOT of cities and ALOT of fire departments and many more government agencies which could be trademarked. Where's the stopping point?

Do you really think the firefighters or the tax payers give a flying flip whether or not I own this particular domain? It's not like I scooped up thier primary domain that they have been using for years and years but forgot to renew and holding it for ransom.

 

[barefoot]

I seriously don't grasp the concept. Lets use mine, yours, or any cities fire department as an example. Mine uses NFD as their acronym. Now first of all I'd be rather ticked if they spent tax payers money to trademark their acronym and then to start utilizing even more of the tax payers money to defend that trademark. What makes NYC's fire department different than any other? Apparently it wasn't because of the attack so what was their thinking?

Los Angeles has a TM application for the mark "LAFD". I found a registered TM for "LAPD" and one for "NYPD". The registrant for that last one is "City of New York MUNICIPAL CORPORATION".

I'd guess there's more out there, too.

 

[DNQuest.com]

"They decided they didn't like the easiest route for both parties and wanted to do it their way."

****Please explain your "easiest route"? You say you were going to push it for free, somehow, I think there involved than that. Did you ask for something else? Like hosting, or being webmaster, or some sort of "perk"?

"And no a government arm is not suppose to earn money considering it is funded by tax dollars"

****So you are recognizing that the TM holder is making money off of their TM, IE- using the TM in commerce?


"My arguement is it's a generic four letter domain. I'm not squating"

****If it is deemed to be a TMed (and you said that they are using it in commerce), then would you be squatting? Also, as asked previously, FDNY is generic for ________ (fill in the blank)

"It was always at fabulous I originally posted the same letters a different way which led to another site. Don;t get me wrong here. I'm all for them making money for the firefighters and their families but apparently the trademark was registered before the attack and before the trademark was a household name so that I don't buy. Almost makes me want to pursue this even more. If you are going to commercialize a public service then in my eyes it's no longer a public service funded by tax dollars."

****again recognizing it is being used in commerce (IE- thier TM). You also state that you did not buy before the attacks, but you did after the attacks (when they became "famous"), that demonstrates bad faith intent.

It seems to me you are just wanting to put up a fight regarless of the facts. You want to make a moral stand in light of the factual circumstance (facts will win). Like I said before, this is why there are TM laws and why the Langham Act exsists. To protect TMs.


As far as I know, I do not own any of those domains you mentioned except for toby.info (did you know there about a gazzillion people named Toby, please tell me, how many different references are there to FDNY or NYFD??? I guess you did not compare apples(tm) to apples(tm) not did you?)

BTW- Apple is TMed, Champion is TMed, Cheer is TMed, Windows is TMed, I guess we are not allowed to use them either.... Did you know that McDonalds TMed the word "smile". So bottom line here is, each TMed domain is on a case by case basis, I never asked about any other domains, but I guess when you're desperate to keep a fight going, you start grabbing at straws. (BTW- I have always maintained that I do own domains with TM implications and I have won more battles than I lost. And one battle I won (3 different times agaisnt 2 different lawyers and a financial advisor) would shock many people considering the circumstances behind the name).

As far as bashing you, I just pointed out the facts, if you didn't want facts, then you should not have posted. You have a moral problem with this subject, that will not help you in a court of law.

Anyway, back to the point.... Whether you think it is fair or not, the domain more than likely fall under TM protection (you have even admitted so much), you have not shown interest in the domain to establish rights to the domain.

So what was you question again???

As far as DNQuest is concerned there is no difference in what he has and what I have. Both are four letter domains (in his case four letter words) with trademarks. I have done nothing that bears any association with the trademark in question. So why is it that my case is so different?

The difference has already been explained and supported by your own statements, the NYFD is actively using thier TM in commerce and they are excercising thier rights to enforce thier TM, that is the difference.

"I have done nothing that bears any association with the trademark in question"

**** but you have done nothing to establish rights to it either...


And please, no need to worry about me, I can handle myself just fine, but thanx for caring

 

[JMJ]

You are doing nothing but rambling on assumptions. I have yet to see you post one fact. If you don't own those names then update your site as they are listed on it. Do you not have any idea of what names you own or don't own? My guess is if you don't know what names you own then you have no idea about their trademark status either.

As far as my situation. Again, I HAVE ASKED FOR NOTHING BUT FOR THEM TO CREATE AN ACCOUNT FOR THE FREE PUSH. yes I needed bold letters so you can get that through your thick skull. I'm just not going to jump through their hoops since I have done nothing wrong. And as far as trademark is concerned obviously since I am baffled by the fact a municipality has trademarked the acronyms of a public service for use and defense in "commerce" then you can probably guess or assume since you seem to be good and making assumptions that I didn't know it before I registered the name.

The old sayings, "The pot calling the kettle black" Or mabey "Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." comes to mind here DNQuest.

To extend this debate even further. Yesterday, yes even after this 4 to 5 days of discussion was the first time I even looked at the trademark itself. While doing so I find that another company has a trademark on the very same letters for a different product. So who decides which is the rightful owner? Two trademarks on four letters in one TM database in one country. Could there be more? I don't know. But this obviously shows that there are other interests involved. Hell I might even contact them and offer them the same "FREE push." I think they deserve it more since the fire department and other related associations have hogged up all of the other TLDs.

 

[jberryhill]

The old sayings, "The pot calling the kettle black" Or mabey "Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." comes to mind here DNQuest.

DNQuest did not start this thread and ask for other people's thoughts on the situation which you posted. Did you want everyone to agree with you or see things your way? Well, they don't. Deal. You asked for the stones to be thrown. Nobody else did.

Who, pray tell is the other entity? I do hope you can tell the difference between a registered trademark, and a pending application... particularly an application which is the subject of an opposition proceeding. There are only two registrations for FDNY. and they both belong to the City of New York and its fire department.

The current status of the only other live record - a pending application, not a registration is:

(words only): FDNY

Standard Character claim: Yes

Current Status: An opposition is now pending at the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board.


Now, I'll give you one chance to guess the identity of the opposing party.

You have a greater knowledge of domains than the average person. I would be willing to be that the guy with whom you are communicating has absolutely no idea how to set up a registrar account, receive a free push, and then transfer the domain name to the registrar where they have their other domain names. He is doing what he has been told to do, and what has proven to work in previous situations.

Maybe it makes you feel smart or superior that the guy is confused or doesn't know how to handle what you have offered. As noted in the dispute proceedings linked above, these guys go after a lot of domain names, and they are not going to stop for the world to revolve around you.

But, please, by all means, give the domain name to the other party whom you think has a trademark, when in fact it is an opposed 1B application. I'll bet Mr. Singleton will seem a whole lot smarter to you after you demonstrate that stroke of genius.

 

[JMJ]

I have no problems with opposing thoughts but when those thoughts become accusations then I have a problem. Thanks for deciphering the status of the other trademark. Learn something new every day.

As far a superiority is concerned thats not the case. In fact I explained in my reply how to go about doing it. If the person is too stupid to figure out how to fill out a form to create an account and working for a city's legal department then they should consider restaffing.

 

[DNQuest.com]

interesting, talking about my thick skull, but yet, if I read correctly, you knew the NYFD is a TM, yet claim FDNY is generic, but yet, won;t support you point of view.

The only assumption I made is there was more than just a free push involved with no strings attached. I find it hard to believe you would be contacted, then they refuse to accept the domain free and clear when offered. That is why I asked what I did. Other than that, I don't see any other assumptions that I posted.

BTW- I did not ramble, I believe I was answering your ramble (remember the "let's compare my domain to your domain" speach where in fact, you were quite mistaken in comparing "apples to apples"

But you are right, I needed to update my site...

 

[JMJ]

You aren't reading it correctly. And I was correct in my apples to apples. Both are four letter domains with apparent trademarks. Only difference is you apparently no longer own them. "The pot calling the kettle black" and "Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" still very much fits. You are bashing me when you admit you own/owned and even had to defend "multiple" cases. In the years I've been doing this I've had to defend "0". This would be my 2nd preliminary C&D out of thousands of names. The first disappeared from my possession with the delete option. And with the additional email I sent lastnight still unanswered and the only request being "to create the account for the free push." I'm assuming they can't find anyone bright enough in their legal office to fill out the form so it looks like it gets deleted aswell.

 

[pam]

Gee, I never knew the word "sex" was trademarked ..... thanks for that information

But no, I own nothing with travel, hotel, casino, car, etc. Any domain name I own does not contain anything that is trademarked. My iPod porn domains don't contain the word 'iPod" though so many do .... just waiting to see what happens to those.

 

[DNQuest.com]

You aren't reading it correctly. And I was correct in my apples to apples. Both are four letter domains with apparent trademarks. Only difference is you apparently no longer own them. "The pot calling the kettle black" and "Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" still very much fits. You are bashing me when you admit you own/owned and even had to defend "multiple" cases. In the years I've been doing this I've had to defend "0". This would be my 2nd preliminary C&D out of thousands of names. The first disappeared from my possession with the delete option. And with the additional email I sent lastnight still unanswered and the only request being "to create the account for the free push." I'm assuming they can't find anyone bright enough in their legal office to fill out the form so it looks like it gets deleted aswell.

Bashing? no, just answering your questions. As far as your examples of apples to apples, the only thing they have in common are 4 letters, I hope your arguement is stronger than that. Hunk has many different meanings and is used by many different companies. It is also an entry in the dictionary (one of the meanings of generic). Thus enforcement of the TM is very difficult because it is generic in nature. Your domain on the other hand is very specific and by your own admission is registered solely for the purpose of relating it to the TM.

As far as TMed domains, find me a generic word which is not TMed, heck, every domain is probably subject to some sort of TM, whether a person owns the TM or someone is infringing on the TM. So the statement that I own TMed is true, then again, so does everyone else, this is where intent and usage and enforcement comes into play. See, there is a thing called fair usage, which the TMed domains I own come under. You are not using the domain under fair usage, you are looking to get the "score", there is a big difference. I was offered a lot for the domain I defended (multiple times), but I had no interest (and for the record, I don't make any money from the TMed domain, zero, zilch), so there is a huge difference.

 

[JMJ]

I have never stated I purchased the domain solely for the purpose relating to the TM. I registered this and many other four letter combination simply because of that. Again you are turning it into something it's not. I don't make any money off of trademarked domains either. In fact this one hasn't made one red cent. I never planned on selling them the name and if they would take the few seconds it takes to setup an account they get it for free paid for by me. This is the part that irritates me most. They are much more willing to file to get it than they are to setup a free account. Seems to me the motivation is greed on someone elses part.

And as far as bashing is concerned you've done nothing but do it based on assumptions ever since you came upon this thread. Beginning with your first post.

As far as the domain is concerned they refused the second attempt of setting up the free acount so plans are to delete it and go about my merry way.

 

[jberryhill]

Seems to me the motivation is greed on someone elses part.

No. Typically, it is just unfamiliarity with how things work. That's a city lawyer, so he's not getting any bonus for messing around with you. He may not have any practical interface with the tech people who have told his department "transfer domain names this way", and he may not be authorized to set up a registrar account on behalf of the city. There are a number of practical realities that may be at work here.

But, yeah, someone you don't know says "Go to a webpage somewhere, and put in a bunch of information"... A lot of people are not sophisticated internet users, but they are sophisticated enough to say no when that is suggested to them.

 

[JMJ]

I'd be surprised if he's not getting paid every time his name is mentioned in an email. They can just look forward to finding it in the drops hopefully they can find someone with some technical knowledge to figure that out. They had my practical solution along with the practical reality behind it but they refused, twice.