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Unreal! Probably Illegal!
- Thread starter bwilson27
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Well I guess i'm glad i'm from Kent then
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I think the discussion should be stopped here. No matter what we say, the poor guy will not understand, a typical result of frustration and anger.
He might have learned for the future that there are other possibilities to backorder a name than just the one company he deals with.
is available next year again and from what I have seen the .net expires in december 2006.
Maybe he comes back next year, happy and over the moon, to have caught the name...but surely then he won´t say anything like this anymore:
From my point of view, statements as
He might have learned for the future that there are other possibilities to backorder a name than just the one company he deals with.
is available next year again and from what I have seen the .net expires in december 2006.
Maybe he comes back next year, happy and over the moon, to have caught the name...but surely then he won´t say anything like this anymore:
From my point of view, statements as
should get him :ban: , there is no reason to attack us, we are
too.
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bwilson27 said:
I think that`s enought. :ban:
You may come here maybe after you realize how much you`re offending us.
You should know very well what is capitalism being in the Usa where everything is based on the money.
You may even have a look at Wall Street where people buy shares and options and the right second later they try to sell them at higher price.
Being right or wrong does not mean you can came here and be free to say whatever you like.
That`s my last post in your thread.
Goodbye.
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Are we really selling domains at prices higher than the registras?
I haven't been called a crook in so many ways in along time..
He's probably pissed off because he lost his kneepads and can't
go to work at the bus station till he gets new ones..................:disappoin
He looks like he just ate a mouse anyway..
Meet Brett
I haven't been called a crook in so many ways in along time..
He's probably pissed off because he lost his kneepads and can't
go to work at the bus station till he gets new ones..................:disappoin
He looks like he just ate a mouse anyway..
Meet Brett
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Hey, Mr. Wilson does have a point.
Remember in the old days when all had a shot at a dropping name, at basically the same rate? Many stages later the registrars gave themselves the right to take the profits without even incurring a reg fee. There is NO existant overview of these registrars, and ICANNT does absolutely nothing. ICANNT is just in the business of taking accredation fees, application fees, reg fees and travel to avoid the focus. What weight does the term "ICANN Accredited Registrar" carry, when all it takes is a chunk of cash, there are NO rules, and not a single accredation has ever been pulled?
Those that say we give the registrars the right to auction off our expired names via signing their TOS are only part right. When you have an existing account, you agree to changes in those TOS to benefit the registrars or you can pay to have your names transferred. In other words your account is held hostage unless you go along with them.
I find most of these registrars are two-faced profiteers that set their own rules. Take GoDaddy's Parsons for example. The guy complains about "tasting" or "kiting" as he calls it, saying these guys are making money (without having to come out of pocket), and are taking the inventory out of the public's hands. At the same time, he cuts the grace period down at his registrars to 13 days (18 for large accounts) from a typical 30 days, so he can push names over to his TDNAM and auction them (without having to come out of pocket) himself.
Why do these registrars get away with just "taking" over expired names without them just going back to the registry for redistribution? Why do they get away with (cherry picking) and using the old registrants whois details, to profit by placing ads on them again (without having to come out of pocket)?
Those that also think that these registrars don't work deals behind the scenes to push a few names over to their buds, need to wake up. It's a shame, but our beloved Internet biz is as crooked as any.
Remember in the old days when all had a shot at a dropping name, at basically the same rate? Many stages later the registrars gave themselves the right to take the profits without even incurring a reg fee. There is NO existant overview of these registrars, and ICANNT does absolutely nothing. ICANNT is just in the business of taking accredation fees, application fees, reg fees and travel to avoid the focus. What weight does the term "ICANN Accredited Registrar" carry, when all it takes is a chunk of cash, there are NO rules, and not a single accredation has ever been pulled?
Those that say we give the registrars the right to auction off our expired names via signing their TOS are only part right. When you have an existing account, you agree to changes in those TOS to benefit the registrars or you can pay to have your names transferred. In other words your account is held hostage unless you go along with them.
I find most of these registrars are two-faced profiteers that set their own rules. Take GoDaddy's Parsons for example. The guy complains about "tasting" or "kiting" as he calls it, saying these guys are making money (without having to come out of pocket), and are taking the inventory out of the public's hands. At the same time, he cuts the grace period down at his registrars to 13 days (18 for large accounts) from a typical 30 days, so he can push names over to his TDNAM and auction them (without having to come out of pocket) himself.
Why do these registrars get away with just "taking" over expired names without them just going back to the registry for redistribution? Why do they get away with (cherry picking) and using the old registrants whois details, to profit by placing ads on them again (without having to come out of pocket)?
Those that also think that these registrars don't work deals behind the scenes to push a few names over to their buds, need to wake up. It's a shame, but our beloved Internet biz is as crooked as any.
Agree with most what stocdoctor said.
And yes, as strange as it seems, the bwilson guy *DOES* have a point.
I know it's a difficult line to draw, especially for people like domainers, after all we profit from knowledge about expired domains etc, knowledge that the general public still doesn't have so one could argue that what most of us do is "unethical" as well.
As said, it's difficult.
Where i think it's getting really unethical is this:
- The kiting game in general, registrars participating in it in particular and especially when it's about *millions* on a daily basis.Plus ICANN doing zilch about it.
- Companies like ireit, buydomains, even good old yun yee before his sale that own like 400,000 names and more.
- Exclusive deals between registrars and drop catching services that make domains their exclusive property.
While most of the business above menioned and alikes are conducting might be perfectly legal (minus the usual under the table deals), i still consider it to be unethical.
Why?
Because these things have an impact on the internet as a whole.
If domains don't drop anymore because drop services have exclusive deals with registrars it hurts the "public domain" aspect of the internet.
Remember, domains are still not owned but only "rented" as long as you pay the annual renewal fees, and there's a reason for it.By exclusive deals with drop services in reality it means instead of registrants it's now the registrars and drop services that have exclusive control over names that otherwise would have been dropped.
Kiting:
Kiting hurts the internet as a whole in the same manner, if not more.
It's not even the fact that registrars participating in it gain unfair monetary advantage because of the exclusive return policy privilege they have, but more important it results in millions of names not being available *although* no one paid for them and these names being not available *constantly* because registrars can repeat the game over and over with the very same names which means they can keep the names forever without ever paying for them (minus the short one second time period when they return the name to the registry just to rereg it seconds later).
Ireit,Buydomains etc:
Yes, i consider a single company owning like 400,000 domains to be hurting the internet.As said above, perfectly legal but legality isn't my point at the moment anyway - it's just about ethics.And contrary to popular belief, things that are legal might still be unethical.
I would be all for ICANN regulations that only allow a limited number of domains to own per person/company, limitations on registry refunds and a policy that forbids exclusive deals between registrars and drop services,.i.e. a policy that says if a name expires/deletes, it *has* to drop.
I very much applaud nominets move to restrict kiting with .co.uk names.
I wish there was a lobby that would force ICANN to do the same.
I know it's all wishful thinking on my part because ICANN is corrupt, and as said it's a fine line where the actual unfairness begins depending where you yourself are standing at but although i consider myself to be some kind of domainer i don't agree with destroying the public domain aspect of the internet.
And yes, as strange as it seems, the bwilson guy *DOES* have a point.
I know it's a difficult line to draw, especially for people like domainers, after all we profit from knowledge about expired domains etc, knowledge that the general public still doesn't have so one could argue that what most of us do is "unethical" as well.
As said, it's difficult.
Where i think it's getting really unethical is this:
- The kiting game in general, registrars participating in it in particular and especially when it's about *millions* on a daily basis.Plus ICANN doing zilch about it.
- Companies like ireit, buydomains, even good old yun yee before his sale that own like 400,000 names and more.
- Exclusive deals between registrars and drop catching services that make domains their exclusive property.
While most of the business above menioned and alikes are conducting might be perfectly legal (minus the usual under the table deals), i still consider it to be unethical.
Why?
Because these things have an impact on the internet as a whole.
If domains don't drop anymore because drop services have exclusive deals with registrars it hurts the "public domain" aspect of the internet.
Remember, domains are still not owned but only "rented" as long as you pay the annual renewal fees, and there's a reason for it.By exclusive deals with drop services in reality it means instead of registrants it's now the registrars and drop services that have exclusive control over names that otherwise would have been dropped.
Kiting:
Kiting hurts the internet as a whole in the same manner, if not more.
It's not even the fact that registrars participating in it gain unfair monetary advantage because of the exclusive return policy privilege they have, but more important it results in millions of names not being available *although* no one paid for them and these names being not available *constantly* because registrars can repeat the game over and over with the very same names which means they can keep the names forever without ever paying for them (minus the short one second time period when they return the name to the registry just to rereg it seconds later).
Ireit,Buydomains etc:
Yes, i consider a single company owning like 400,000 domains to be hurting the internet.As said above, perfectly legal but legality isn't my point at the moment anyway - it's just about ethics.And contrary to popular belief, things that are legal might still be unethical.
I would be all for ICANN regulations that only allow a limited number of domains to own per person/company, limitations on registry refunds and a policy that forbids exclusive deals between registrars and drop services,.i.e. a policy that says if a name expires/deletes, it *has* to drop.
I very much applaud nominets move to restrict kiting with .co.uk names.
I wish there was a lobby that would force ICANN to do the same.
I know it's all wishful thinking on my part because ICANN is corrupt, and as said it's a fine line where the actual unfairness begins depending where you yourself are standing at but although i consider myself to be some kind of domainer i don't agree with destroying the public domain aspect of the internet.
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Stocdoctor said:
Absolutely no argument with you there
Stocdoctor said:
Let's face it SD, to those "in the know" it actually makes it easier in a sense to grab a name at an auction where you know the name will end up eg Godaddy - TDNAM, Netsol - Snapnames etc.
But in this case the same great research techniques (googling) as exemplified by bwilson could have also been used beforehand to research the where, why, and the how much. 30 bucks later this thread would never have happened.....My guess is BD snagged it because the org and net were taken, signalling a demand factor to the supply chain....
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Is anyone here just playing or are we trying to make money?
Granted the Registras are keeping Expired Domains and selling them,
but in the same respect aren't we doing the same thing to the
poor soul looking for a domain to put a site on?
I give them credit for waking up to the fact they were worth more
money because of traffic if nothing else.
But instead of spending my time worring about them I'd rather spend
it looking for new domains with other TLDs.
The one advantage we have is we keep better track of what's selling
than they do.
What's the next hot market going to be, all the 3 letter com and nets
are gone and the .us is being bought up.
Are 2 and 3 letter coms and nets with a -Hyphen going (D-og.com)
to get scarce or is the .info or .us going to catch fire?
Something will as the com and net is dead speculation wise, ya either
have them or not by now.
Granted the Registras are keeping Expired Domains and selling them,
but in the same respect aren't we doing the same thing to the
poor soul looking for a domain to put a site on?
I give them credit for waking up to the fact they were worth more
money because of traffic if nothing else.
But instead of spending my time worring about them I'd rather spend
it looking for new domains with other TLDs.
The one advantage we have is we keep better track of what's selling
than they do.
What's the next hot market going to be, all the 3 letter com and nets
are gone and the .us is being bought up.
Are 2 and 3 letter coms and nets with a -Hyphen going (D-og.com)
to get scarce or is the .info or .us going to catch fire?
Something will as the com and net is dead speculation wise, ya either
have them or not by now.
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2-3 letter domains pricing has really shot up skies
imagine a fund having 1k 3 letter domains x $ 10k per domain what kind of figures you are reaching at.
its very much possible for some one to initiate and hike the pricing,
buying 50 names at $10k if a fund is able to get out and sell 950 domains its worth a gamble
still such things can be planned by top domain management companies.
any ways point here is that premium domains will have a value, and you cannot say why $10k , there are other funds ready to pick domains if you want to get out.
old domains would still have value, but most buyers in future would be big funds, as individual investor is not gona give away $20-30k for a domain name.
imagine a fund having 1k 3 letter domains x $ 10k per domain what kind of figures you are reaching at.
its very much possible for some one to initiate and hike the pricing,
buying 50 names at $10k if a fund is able to get out and sell 950 domains its worth a gamble
still such things can be planned by top domain management companies.
any ways point here is that premium domains will have a value, and you cannot say why $10k , there are other funds ready to pick domains if you want to get out.
old domains would still have value, but most buyers in future would be big funds, as individual investor is not gona give away $20-30k for a domain name.
Theo
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Look how many different Brett Wilson guys. You have the .ORG what exactly entitles you to the .com?
Be glad your first name isn't Brian - you'd have no chance of even getting the .ORG
Be glad your first name isn't Brian - you'd have no chance of even getting the .ORG
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There's was an ugly name I wanted on 2005, it was on Sedo, the guy asked $550.00. Today, I've had the name without a blink. But last year, I let it go. It was not even a really good name and it was for website in a complex project.
Now, I have the money and tried, it was not on Sedo anymore, it was got by an indian guy. The guy wanted $50,000 says it bought on Jan this year and have a project for the domain. The guy says, without a project in mind he would sell for X,XXX. The use of "x,xxx" was an indicator of a domainer, more than a webmaster.
But, I didn't give up, the domain was ugly anyway, and I started researching and researching variations and alternative names and synonyms.
I found two better options, one in another domainer hands and other in BuyDomain hands.
The individual domainer asked $3,500.00 for it. I dreaded asking the price to buydomains. But for my surprise they came with a lower price !! Then as a well business man I begged for a discount. They gave me the discount ! I paid for the domain right away.
Thank God, BuyDomains have some good names rather than people dreaming for billionarie enterprises come and buy their domains for a hundred thousands!
Better BuyDomains than a newbie domainer !
Now, I have the money and tried, it was not on Sedo anymore, it was got by an indian guy. The guy wanted $50,000 says it bought on Jan this year and have a project for the domain. The guy says, without a project in mind he would sell for X,XXX. The use of "x,xxx" was an indicator of a domainer, more than a webmaster.
But, I didn't give up, the domain was ugly anyway, and I started researching and researching variations and alternative names and synonyms.
I found two better options, one in another domainer hands and other in BuyDomain hands.
The individual domainer asked $3,500.00 for it. I dreaded asking the price to buydomains. But for my surprise they came with a lower price !! Then as a well business man I begged for a discount. They gave me the discount ! I paid for the domain right away.
Thank God, BuyDomains have some good names rather than people dreaming for billionarie enterprises come and buy their domains for a hundred thousands!
Better BuyDomains than a newbie domainer !
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When you sleep past breakfast you shouldn't complain about being
hungry nor get mad at the cook..
Those of us who were smart enough to see what was happening
don't have to apologize to anyone. This is our biz and it beats the hell
out of putting spyware, adware or unwanted toolbars in surfers puters.
I don't know what he does but I'd bet it was a semi **** the surfer
in one way or another..
That's like us getting a hardon over the Registras waking up to the
fact expired domains have a higher value than just re-registering them
by someone.
Now the Domain trader bit is being flooded by newbies just like the
Adult market did 4 years ago. Anyone who has less than 1000 domains
isn't making the bucks to quit his day job at McD's and to make the
monthly nut, buy new domains and renew domains you want to hang
on to 3,000 and up is needed to do it right..
Once in awhile it's nice to see some poor soul bitching because
someone was smarter than him. I wonder how many emails he's sent
to Bill Gates at Microsoft because windows should be free, hell it's
only some code tossed together with no product cost..
The one thing Bush hasn't taken away yet because all his cronys are
up to their ass in it and that's making money the good way, watch
what's happening and get in line..
I think we should all get together and chip in to buy the future ulser
owner a big towel!!!
:bounce: :bounce:
hungry nor get mad at the cook..
Those of us who were smart enough to see what was happening
don't have to apologize to anyone. This is our biz and it beats the hell
out of putting spyware, adware or unwanted toolbars in surfers puters.
I don't know what he does but I'd bet it was a semi **** the surfer
in one way or another..
That's like us getting a hardon over the Registras waking up to the
fact expired domains have a higher value than just re-registering them
by someone.
Now the Domain trader bit is being flooded by newbies just like the
Adult market did 4 years ago. Anyone who has less than 1000 domains
isn't making the bucks to quit his day job at McD's and to make the
monthly nut, buy new domains and renew domains you want to hang
on to 3,000 and up is needed to do it right..
Once in awhile it's nice to see some poor soul bitching because
someone was smarter than him. I wonder how many emails he's sent
to Bill Gates at Microsoft because windows should be free, hell it's
only some code tossed together with no product cost..
The one thing Bush hasn't taken away yet because all his cronys are
up to their ass in it and that's making money the good way, watch
what's happening and get in line..
I think we should all get together and chip in to buy the future ulser
owner a big towel!!!
:bounce: :bounce:
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:ranger: I think you've used a words in the wrong tense,
"just because it's expiring"
UNTILL IT DOES ACTUALLY EXPIRE it's yours, and you also have
so many days to renew it after it expires for the regular renewal price..
They also send emails up to 3 months ahead telling you it's going
to expire so wake up and except the fact YOU fuc*ed UP!
Blaming others and calling them names just makes one believe your
age is higher than your IQ!
:whistle:
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For your information it's called capitalism - if you don't like it that's tough.
Secondly this is not a sordid business - it's only sordid to you because you can't get what you want without working HARD for it - welcome to the real world! It's your type who want something for nothing - talk about chip on your shoulder.
Stop moaning and start doing.
Secondly this is not a sordid business - it's only sordid to you because you can't get what you want without working HARD for it - welcome to the real world! It's your type who want something for nothing - talk about chip on your shoulder.
Stop moaning and start doing.
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While the drop game isn't illegal...I do believe it's very shady. I don't trust it one bit. One thing that really bothers me is that say I dropped a name I had a site on for YEARS...then it's caught...sold off in auction for $xx,xxx. Guess what cut I get..ZERO. That hardly seems fair since I am the one that created all that value. IMHO previous owners should get a percentage. Also one has to wonder how regulated these drop companies are. I think none. I think they do as they please with no regard to the public interest. ICAAN is there to protect the internet and they do a teribble job. The Registrars attempt and successsfully manipulate ICAAN seemingly at will. Next the drop companies work with the registrars to gain even more money. Now where in all this is the public good? The web is now driven by extreme greed and power. We are all just scrambling for our cut. You can say that's capitalism and partially that's true. But we do have anti-trust and anti-monopoly laws in the USA and it would not suprise me in the least if one day 5-20 years from now the chain of icaan-registrar-drop are investigated for their practices.
Something is very wrong in the equation and it's hard to pinpoint exactly what it is but imho...it's there. How much money are drop companies really making? Are they really offering a viable service? Most auction houses get a CUT of a sale...not the entire proceeds. I think they money trail needs to be followed. I also bet you won't see any publically traded companies in the drop game so they won't have to disclose their earnings and other dealings.
bah...I am done ranting now...
Something is very wrong in the equation and it's hard to pinpoint exactly what it is but imho...it's there. How much money are drop companies really making? Are they really offering a viable service? Most auction houses get a CUT of a sale...not the entire proceeds. I think they money trail needs to be followed. I also bet you won't see any publically traded companies in the drop game so they won't have to disclose their earnings and other dealings.
bah...I am done ranting now...
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