For Sale Casino Domain - $277 earned in 5 days

[GeorgeKGeorgeK is verified member.]

No, a lot of folks will click out of curiousity, and aren't qualified leads -- they're low quality traffic, by definition. Just like Chinese traffic -- they'll click on anything.

Advertisers who are paying for the clicks definitely care how the traffic got there. That's why you don't see mortgage and poker ads on "1-click" on porno.com anymore. Certainly if those sponsors liked the traffic, they'd be front and center there.

If that low quality traffic is lumped in with high quality traffic, and advertisers are forced to bid on the total traffic, they'll bid lower than what they would have bid on the high quality traffic by itself, to reflect their lower ROI. Thus, the lower traffic providers are STEALING from the higher quality traffic providers.

If those low traffic quality sources believe their traffic converts, they can send it to pay-per-action programs (i.e. rev-share or pay-per-player programs for casinos, or pay per lead for mortgages, or whatever), not pay-per-click. If they get 1 lead in 50,000 clicks, they might be lucky.

To see that this is true, explain why "Mesothelioma" is $20+ per click on Overture...but, if you do a Mesothelioma page in AdSense, and send it irrelevant traffic, your earnings per click are 2 cents. arty:

Traffic quality matters! Q.E.D.

 

[MerlinK]

George,

You break it down well from that perspective. However, I find a few points to be a bit contrary:

1) you suggest that the people with low quality traffic should send traffic to pay-per-action programs, saying they might get lucky. Why don't you send your traffic to pay-per-action programs since it is so likely to convert? Perhaps if your traffic doesn't convert as well in pay-per-action, maybe the PPC leads your sending aren't as quality as you think.

2) you emphatically accuse low quality traffic providers of STEALING directly from YOU (and other "high quality" traffic providers) -- I think it is a stretch to say they are stealing directly from you.

Do you also believe that orphaned children are stealing from YOU, because of the additional taxes you shell out to contribute to the funding of government programs?

I would hope not.

Everything is connected and has an affect on everything else -- yes, that is true.
In this situation, PPC companies are being stolen from more than you are, as they probably earn more of the bid than you. Unless PPC companies like Fabulous feel that these low quality traffic providers are stealing from THEM, I don't think you can justify a rant about how they are stealing from you.

 

[namestrands]

Just FYI here was the stats for the domain in question

1 United States 2449 (48.16%)
2 United Kingdom 465 (9.14%)
3 Uruguay 443 (8.71%)
4 Korea, Republic of 404 (7.94%)
5 France 247 (4.86%)
6 Spain 120 (2.36%)
7 Japan 88 (1.73%)
8 Germany 86 (1.69%)
9 Canada 79 (1.55%)
10 Costa Rica 60 (1.18%)

 

[GeorgeKGeorgeK is verified member.]

1. I have sent my traffic to pay-per-action, and know my stuff does convert. I even send my pop-exit traffic to Party Poker, and that RESIDUAL traffic earns a considerable amount per month. Casino sponsors know my full portfolio of gambling domains, and would love to buy them -- we just can't agree on price. arty: I prefer PPC as I get the cash immediately, that I can reinvest in additional domains (rev-share might take a year or two to generate the same amount, since you get the earnings over the lifetime of the player, which can be 5 or 6 or more years). Over the long run, I might earn even more via pay-per-action (i.e. rev-share). It all depends, though, what the bids on PPC are.... If the traffic quality gets so diluted because junk is being tossed at it, such that the bids get to $1 per click or other low values (check out what "poker" goes for on FindWhat.com -- 22 cents a click, vs $8+ on Fabulous), I'd obviously take my business directly to the casinos. Fabulous knows this, and so it's in their best interests to maintain high quality. Fabulous hasn't posted in this thread, yet, but email them and see whether one would be able to create a Poker PPC lander for domains with dubious traffic origination. I already know the answer -- they'll kick you to the curb, and won't think twice about it.

2) Yes, it's stealing directly from folks who are providing quality traffic. Suppose that the total real "pie" is $1 million per month for poker traffic on Fabulous, for example, from 100,000 quality clicks. ($10/click, I made the numbers up to round nicely). Now, Joe Weasel comes along with his Chinese hitbot traffic, which contributes 0 Return on Investment to advertisers, but generates 25,000 worthless clicks to the advertisers. The total number of clicks is now 125,000, and in equilibrium the price per click will go down from $10/click to $8/click (i.e. 125,000 x 8 = $1 million still, which is the real value to advertisers).

A person who was sending 5,000 clicks at $10 used to be making $50,000 per month. But, now they've seen the bids drop to $8, and they're now making $40,000 per month. Joe Weasel is happy, as his worthless traffic (which might have cost $1000 to acquire) is earning 25,000 x $8 = $200,000 per month. Joe Weasel has STOLEN DIRECTLY from the high quality traffic sources. They're making less than they would otherwise be making.

If you took the analysis further, you can understand there must be a lot of junk traffic at FindWhat, for their bids on poker to be at 22 cents per click, compared to $8+ at Fabulous.

As for your orphaned children example, that has nothing to do with this analysis. Society benefits from lower crime, etc. when there are social programs (e.g. welfare). I receive no benefit in rewarding fraudsters who are doing this as a business. I'll be happy to put them out of business, so they can go back on welfare.

Fabulous knows that low quality traffic providers are stealing from them too. Go ask them. Fabulous themselves owns several hundred thousand domains, and doesn't want to see the bids erode.

If you think PPC companies like fraudulent traffic, go read Google's annual report or prospectus. Click fraud is one of their biggest business threats. Or, go to Google and search for "click fraud" -- it's such a big concern that a whole industry has evolved to fight it, who are bidding on the term "click fraud"! (I count 14 sponsored links on Google on the right hand side -- probably more if my IP was in the US instead of in Canada).

if you actually think click fraud ISN'T a problem, and all traffic is of the same quality (i.e. a click is a click is a click):

1) explain why poker is $8+/click at Fabulous, and lower everywhere else

2) Why is "mesothelioma" $20+ on Overture, yet AdSense sites with that are typically getting 2 or 3 cents/click? www.er.com used to be a Mesothelioma site -- now it's at DomainSponsor -- I wonder why??!!??

NameStrands: In post #16, you said you'd apologize if you heard back from Fabulous that you were in violation of the TOS. Go ahead. arty:

 

[namestrands]

There is more to PPC than Clicks and as a company who Pays over $30,000 a year on this, I am speaking from experience. And of course its the reason why google are now paying on per 1000 impressions.

The fact of the matter is that PPC is just as much about Brand Awareness and Brand Marketing.. They know that the more times a person see an ad of theirs, then they will get to know the brand name, and if at some time they wish to buy that product or service then they are more likely to use a name they know.

To see that this is true, explain why "Mesothelioma" is $20+ per click on Overture...but, if you do a Mesothelioma page in AdSense, and send it irrelevant traffic, your earnings per click are 2 cents.

I think that comment really is the pot calling the kettle black..

At the end of the Day Links are Links and people make the decision to click, I am confident that PPC programs only record qualified traffic from countries that clients agree too, this I do know as I have to bid on keywords in each specific region I want to target, and I only pay for clicks on that region.

And I also have the experience of running one of the early casinos. TheRedline.com and AsianGamle.com..

I hear what you are all saying and some points I agree in principle, but the fact is that most of the traffic is that of engines and other sites now and of course this thread sent the traffic into overload.

I read a comment about Poker names being on $8 on Fabulous? wow I guess my $26 a click is good then, and perhaps that must mean something actually about the location of the traffic.

The simple fact is that we are all profitting from other peoples misfortune, and well its our Karma. I am not going to loose any sleep because some people think that people are abusing the system, or what they are doing is NOT FAIR...

Grow the F*** up and get on with your own lives... this is not an issue with you its an issue with the PPC and the Advertisers, and please forgive me for not feeling sorry for multi million $ corporation that are making obscene amounts of money from people like us who spend so much time promoting their companies..

We are all in this for the money... and I will step over anyone to reach that prize.. Domain speculation is what it is.. we feed off the bottoms of others.. we buy domains because we want to make a profit, and well I we all violate ICANN regulations on BAD FAITH registrations...

So get of your high horse and either put up or shut up. I submitted my concerns to fabulous, and as of yet I have not heard anything...

My whole thread was honest and complete, and all I get was some F***ed up comments from people trying to Justify what they do by taken a moral stand. Take a look at what you are doing, with regards to profitting from other peoples misfortune and addictions.. If it is such an issue tell your therapist. You are not going to convince me that what you say is true. .

You talk about Click Fraud... where the hell did that come from? there was no mention of click fraud.. again a collateral attack...

all that aside I buy and sell domains... the parking programs are a means to an end until a sale is made. I try not to be a slave to ppc.. I want to develop and make sites that I actually know about the subject matter.

While I a not knocking all the PPC slaves. If it works for you then great.

Before you judge someone again, then you should look at who you are defending. Casinos are the biggest sponsors on adult sites and are also the biggest sponsors on sites that could only be construed as child porn. I am sure you sleep well at night that you promote companies that are most likely linked to organised crime and well other not so favourable areas of business.

If you want to get moral then take a look in the mirror..

 

[MerlinK]

George,

Once again, good examples.

IMHO, this falls outside the bounds of traditional "click fraud". It's a bit extreme to say that anyone sending traffic which converts less than 1:50 (or whatever) is "committing click fraud."

An attempt to answer one of your questions:

1) Poker is $8/click at Fabulous because they leverage the biggest portfolio of poker domains, subsequently, with the most paid clicks per month. I believe it is sheer numbers: (non-real numbers used): If choosing between 100,000 clicks per day at $10/click, and 150,000 (even 125,000) clicks per day at $8/click, i'm betting (no pun intended), they would pick the latter of the two.

 

[GeorgeKGeorgeK is verified member.]

haha Don't lump me in with folks like you. If your argument is "everyone's unethical, so what namestrands does is ok", that won't last long.

Oh, and I already heard back from Fabulous -- maybe they take my account more seriously than they do yours. I'd be curious to know the sucker who bought the domain from you, if it was even ever bought. I could send Chinese hit bot traffic to gklhsjhg-gksjhg.org for a while, and if they'd pay $2,000 for it, based on transitory dubious income, I'd be a billionaire in no-time.

Merlin: It isn't sheer numbers (volume). All that matter is ROI. If folks buy 1000 clicks at FindWhat, vs. 1000 clicks at Fabulous, they're paying 40x more per click at Fabulous because the clicks are earning 40x more from real players. Nothing more, nothing less. Arbitrage would quickly occur if anything else was true.

 

[namestrands]

maybe they do. but I have not heard back as of yet.. perhaps they are taking the time to verify it...

Fabulous because the clicks are earning 40x more from real players. Nothing more, nothing less. Arbitrage would quickly occur if anything else was true.

dont you think you should appologise for making a collateral attack by claiming that I am involved in click fraud, because I have never clicked on any of my own links or incentivised anyone else to do so.

 

[GeorgeKGeorgeK is verified member.]

Click fraud doesn't only mean clicking your own links or incentivising others. Sending dubious traffic in violation of a TOS counts as click fraud to me, and to most reasonable people.

If I create a Javascript popunder on www.math.com and send 47,000 visitors a day to one of my gambling domains on pay-per-click, THAT WOULD BE OBVIOUSLY FRAUDULENT, even though I'm not clicking my own link, or providing incentives to click.

By the way, those "$26/clicks" don't actually exist. A few clicks in quick succession are miscounted on Fab as 1 click, as documented by someone else in another thread.

 

[namestrands]

Click fraud doesn't only mean clicking your own links or incentivising others. Sending dubious traffic in violation of a TOS counts as click fraud to me, and to most reasonable people.

If I create a Javascript popunder on www.math.com and send 47,000 visitors a day to one of my gambling domains on pay-per-click, THAT WOULD BE OBVIOUSLY FRAUDULENT, even though I'm not clicking my own link, or providing incentives to click.

The traffic is coming from my website... a gaming website which includes games like poker and bacarrat.. so how is that unqualified traffic? I dont force peolple to click... it is under the screen fold(you have to scroll down to see the links). It was just links. with the name of the site.. nothing else.. how the F*** is that click fraud?

Math.com is just full of advertising, and looks like it was developed for that reason.. my site has minimal advertising in comparison and I dont have popups or unders. Oh and my site is actually about the subject and actually has a use to the internet population

 

[GeorgeKGeorgeK is verified member.]

Let's see, your domain which gets 0 type-ins per day (rounded to the nearest single digit), suddenly gets 300+ (you removed the screenshot) visitors per day, and that's kosher?? haha

I added the advertising to math.com after I bought it (I bought all the content with the domain). I get dozens of positive comments per week from parents, teachers and children that are served by the site.

 

[namestrands]

you are so synical.. and all out on proving your point.. I am not suprised you are single. The domain was getting a few hits a day and then I put a link to it on my website and now it gets several hundred visits a day. hmm yeah I see your point a link to tell people where the site is as of course they would never of known otherwise.

You are wrong and you know you are... you just dont want to admit it.. which is cool..

You can live in your own little singledom lifestyle and believe all the crap you say.

You still owe me an apology

 

[MerlinK]

I still don't get it.

What's the difference between someone typing in "casino gambling"[.com], and someone clicking a link called "casino gambling" from a closely related site?

 

[namestrands]

only difference is that you piss off some nobody with a GOD complex, and someone who thinks he is the world authority on domains...

sad lonely individuals with nothing better to do than bully people, to give there life some meaning

 

[MerlinK]

I am beginning to see this trend myself.

 

[GeorgeKGeorgeK is verified member.]

haha Now the personal attacks come, "being single", lol. I'd be the cynical one if I let folks like you try to going around and justify their TOS violations and abuse, and not speak out against it.

Merlin: It seems you never will get it. I've given you enough clues. Why is "Mesothelioma" $20 per click at Overture, and 2 cents a click on AdSense content sites?? Traffic quality ISN'T all the same. There are folks bringing up the average, and those bringing it down. And there are folks bringing it down so much that it's abusive, and they get TOS'd for it.

 

[croupier]

I said I wasn't going to post again but what the hell.

What's the difference between someone typing in "casino gambling"[.com], and someone clicking a link called "casino gambling" from a closely related site?

The website in question wasn't closely related, it was a freebie game site. You might think that someone playing a freebie bash the penguin game is related to real money poker but I doubt those paying for the clicks do. Sure there was one or two 'casino style simulation' games, but the ones I've seen bare little resemblance to real games.

So, what difference does it make? Well, a high stakes poker player is worth more than a low stakes player. Signups from general traffic are heavy in low stakes players and those just curios to see what it's all about. Those from targeted traffic are more likely to be higher stakes players and/or long term players - so even though the advertiser is paying the same for a click he's getting a different quality player on average.


I am happily married with 3 children and a have a good social life

 

[namestrands]

again.. you fail to explain yourself on explaining why it is not ok to have a link from a related site... having read all the Terms of Use.. I can see not mention of this not being allowed.

I am sure you being single is not the reason why you have this GOD complex.. I have been getting PMs from people telling me what an asshole you are which is ok, as I like to form my own opinions...

Sorry George you are wrong.... just admit it.. come on you will feel so much better.

 

[GeorgeKGeorgeK is verified member.]

Our friend NameStrands is obviously a PPC expert --- he owns www.mesotheliomareport.net -- haha! Are you getting $20+ per click on that??

 

[GiantDomains]

Looks like the domain is sold, so thread is now closed.