Chargeback and what should I do?

[3par]

One month ago I sold a domain and the buyer paid with credit card thru paypal. The domain was transferred from enom to twocows. And today I got an email from paypal saying the credit card holder issued a charge back, as the card was used without his knowledge.

Anybody had similar experience? And what should I do?

Thanks.

 

[Gerry]

File your own claim with paypal and the issuing credit card carrier.

Do a WHOIS search and see where the domain name is.

Contact your losing registrar and gaining registrar IMMEDIATELY. Give them the straight up facts of the domain name, sale, PayPal transaction ID, the PayPal memos, etc.

Most registrars also have legal departments (ie, GoDaddy's is [email protected]) that are accessible.

CALL both registrars, get names of people you speak with, and follow this up with the material you have to present. Get confirmation from each registrar regarding your filing an action or a dispute.

Minimize any personal comments or opinions. They like the facts and can take action quicker without weeding through the BS.

If this was fraudulent use of the Credit Card, then contact the credit card holder. There needs to be a police report made out and you will want a copy of that.

Have the CC holder provide you with a CC transaction and claim number so you can contact the Credit Card issuer and ask for their report and findings.

Contact your local law enforcement authorities to file a police report because you are now a victim of fraud.

You can also report this to the FBI internet fraud:
http://www.ic3.gov/
http://www.fbi.gov/cyberinvest/cyberhome.htm

and other Department of Justice branches:
http://www.cybercrime.gov/

So, you were the victim of fraud. But here is the kicker...

...how do you know that the fraud is not taking place now?

In other words, give the CC holder the benefit of the doubt. But at the same time, I would be suspicious of the "after the sale" fraud. Following these actions will help resolve two issues:

It may help you get the domain back and...

It may (or may not) validate the claim of unauthorized CC use.

Again, give everyone the benefit of the doubt. But if this was a bogus claim then that person is in a heaping pile of trouble once you file the necessary police reports and fraud actions.

Good luck!

 

[DNcom]

File your own claim with paypal and the issuing credit card carrier.

Do a WHOIS search and see where the domain name is.

Contact your losing registrar and gaining registrar IMMEDIATELY. Give them the straight up facts of the domain name, sale, PayPal transaction ID, the PayPal memos, etc.

Most registrars also have legal departments (ie, GoDaddy's is [email protected]) that are accessible.

CALL both registrars, get names of people you speak with, and follow this up with the material you have to present. Get confirmation from each registrar regarding your filing an action or a dispute.

Minimize any personal comments or opinions. They like the facts and can take action quicker without weeding through the BS.

If this was fraudulent use of the Credit Card, then contact the credit card holder. There needs to be a police report made out and you will want a copy of that.

Have the CC holder provide you with a CC transaction and claim number so you can contact the Credit Card issuer and ask for their report and findings.

Contact your local law enforcement authorities to file a police report because you are now a victim of fraud.

You can also report this to the FBI internet fraud:
http://www.ic3.gov/
http://www.fbi.gov/cyberinvest/cyberhome.htm

and other Department of Justice branches:
http://www.cybercrime.gov/

So, you were the victim of fraud. But here is the kicker...

...how do you know that the fraud is not taking place now?

In other words, give the CC holder the benefit of the doubt. But at the same time, I would be suspicious of the "after the sale" fraud. Following these actions will help resolve two issues:

It may help you get the domain back and...

It may (or may not) validate the claim of unauthorized CC use.

Again, give everyone the benefit of the doubt. But if this was a bogus claim then that person is in a heaping pile of trouble once you file the necessary police reports and fraud actions.

Good luck!

Wow! Professional suggestions!

Lean so much from your post! Thanks.

 

[Raider]

What was the transaction amount?

This happens all the time, this is why you should not accept Paypal for non-tangible items from people you don't know....Paypal is NOT going to do anything about this, so dont waste your time....You would have more success contacting the registrars as Doc suggests.....

Next time use Escrow.com, this way your protected against situations like this.

 

[PeterMan]

Wow! Professional suggestions!

Lean so much from your post! Thanks.

Agreed, great post Doc, really well done..

3par, can you keep us in the loop, I think it would be interesting to here how this plays out, I know a lot of people have this worry (chargeback) when dealing with paypal transactions...

 

[ciperl]

Next time use Escrow.com, this way your protected against situations like this.

I agree with Raider. Unless I know the person, when I sell a domain, I sell it through escrow.com. There's a lot of protection (for both parties) by using Escrow.com.

Sorry this had to happen and I hope your able to clear this up.

 

[Theo]

If they are a member here, post their id so that they can get banned.

 

[3par]

Thanks everybody, especially Doc, for the suggestions. I will contact twocows about the domain name. I will also contact my enom sales rep.

What happened is like this. On early September, Guy Procter ([email protected]) contacted me about lfto.com. We subsequently agreed on $760 for the domain. He paid credit card thru papal. Then last night I got the chargeback notice.

The paypal's lack of support really shocked me. The first thing I got the notice, I wanted to call them to discuss the issue. I could not find the phone number anywhere. Then I just forwarded the email to the chargeback department. One mail immediately bounce back saying no more mail should be sent and any further mail will be thrown away.

They made thousands of dollars from my business and don't provide any support. OK. In the future I will be promoting escrow for my transaction and I will charge 20% more for any paypal transaction for my own insurance.

 

[domainah]

...what you could do is contact the guy under a different email address and name and tell him you are interested in the domain, agree on a price and find out his payment info that way. As soon as he gives you his real paypal address, bank info or other take that info and contact paypal the bank, police etc.

 

[Raider]

I'd say $760 is enough to pursue the issue, Call the Registrars where it is now and try to get them to freeze the domain, you'll have to fax the necessary paperwork, proof of the transaction etc, so keep your all records...

As for Police report, I would do that NOW...Anything over $500 is a felony here in California, take all the information you have him and report it at your local Police station....BTW, where is this guyprocter from anyway?

And try to forget about charging an extra 20% for Paypal, that wont detour fraudsters :nono:

 

[Gerry]

The point is, if it is a legitimate unauthorized use of card, or even use of a stolen card, then this is all understandable in regards to a chargeback.

But if this is a bozo now attempting to claim unauthorized use of a credit card when he/she is the buyer and filed with PayPal, then this is the fraud and the criminal act.

PayPal is useless.

Some useful links in the UK are:

http://www.met.police.uk/fraudalert/

I had a similar situation where I purchased 19 LLL's from someone in the UK. The domains were paid via PayPal. Days went by. Then weeks, months and no contact.

After about 30 days, I was filing action with PayPal. Within the hour of the filing, PayPal notified me that because it was in tangible property they would not investigate it nor refund the money and the matter was closed.

I exhausted every available avenue here. I followed the steps outlined above, contacted all the appropriate agencies, filed the necessary police reports, etc.

It was only after contacting the legal departments of both registrars and the UK authorities did I get a response, on day 120. So I am not sure who had the greatest influence. I will give credit to all involved.

Miraculously the seller contacted me claiming he thought he had already transferred the domain names.

If the domain went to tucows, which it looks like it may have, they have been very cooperative in the past also.

But it is important to stick to the facts and hold off the additional commentary (like all the BS I write).

Fraudulent use of the card or fraudulent claim to PayPal, the domain is yours in my book. Either way, it was obtained under false pretenses.

Best of luck.

 

[Dale Hubbard]

Great posts Doc. You've excelled yourself in this thread

 

[3par]

Turns out there is nothing much to do.

Paypal just notified my the case is out and they charged me additional $10 for the chargeback. Wow, how's that sound?

I am forcing the buyer to use escrow now. And I am charging 20% more if paypal is insitsted, as my own insurance policy.

 

[hugegrowth]

I would only take paypal from members here with good feedback, or ones that have been around long enough you know they are ok. But it's always safer to use Escrow, even though it takes more time.

 

[Raider]

I would only take paypal from members here with good feedback, or ones that have been around long enough you know they are ok. But it's always safer to use Escrow, even though it takes more time.

Right on, Accepting it from members you don't know or who have little FB is a big no no :nono:, If you see the red flags, don't ignore them just so you can sell your domain.... Suggest to the buyer to pay you though escrow.com and see what his response is.... Anything over $500, I always use escrow.com, this way you minimize the hit if a chargeback were to occur.

 

[3par]

Right on, Accepting it from members you don't know or who have little FB is a big no no :nono:, If you see the red flags, don't ignore them just so you can sell your domain.... Suggest to the buyer to pay you though escrow.com and see what his response is.... Anything over $500, I always use escrow.com, this way you minimize the hit if a chargeback were to occur.

Typically I don't sell to board members. And I always use escrow for names above 1k. As my names typically only appeal to the right kind of people, it still puzzles me why somebody would would spend too much effort to cheat on names which are freely available only one year ago.

Anyway, I lost two years' regfee and lost another $10 thanks to paypal. And now, just as you suggested, no more paypal except for reputable members on the board.