Death of a domain owner

[Mizzoula]

I am wondering what exactly happens upon the demise of a domain owner in regards to the domain itself. In the unfortunate incident a domain owner passes away, does the domain he/she owns return to the pool after its expiration? Or do the relatives or someone in charge of the estate materials acquire all rights to the domain? I know the likelihood of a very high profile domain (i.e. business.com) being non-functional after such an instance is virtually impossible, but what about lesser domains (i.e. bobshouse.com) or the like? It would be informational to know what exactly is the process and legalities of such an issue once a domain owner's death occurs.

 

[DomainPairs]

Surely if it expires, it expires! If the executor renews it for the estate, it gets renewed. The problem is the transfer after a sale, and I assume that the executor handles this. I expect it will require a few affidavits though.

 

[DNQuest.com]

It would be part of an estate or a business. I am assuming that most of us have a business, so the business would own the names. There could be a little problem if you are a sole proprietor. We are incorporated so I do not own the names, my company owns the names. If I pass away, the company still exists so there is no issue.

If you are self-employed or just a regular Joe buying names, it goes to the estate. I would hope that the person was smart enough to have some directions on keeping the names or at least transferring them to someone else.

I would view it like having a car, a person dies, the car is still part of his estate. If you don't make payments, it gets repossessed. Just like domains.

Unless you argue that dying is a type of "bad faith"

 

[jberryhilljberryhill is verified member.]

"If you are self-employed or just a regular Joe buying names, it goes to the estate."

This question was covered in more detail a few weeks back, but the short answer is that it is by no means certain that it will go to the estate, and there are good reasons to believe it wouldn't.

Registrars aren't stupid when it comes to the principle of "we want to stay out of legal disputes". No registrar is going to want to continue to pay registry renewals while an estate battle drags on, or to be sucked into probate litigation. In Virginia, for example, it is highly unlikely that a domain registration would be considered property of the estate, since their courts have already determined that a domain registration is NOT property subject to a creditor's claim in bankruptcy (which is a similar sort of property claim).

Domain registrations are usually viewed as service contracts, governed by the registration agreement, and not as property.

So, if I had a contract with you to cut my hair every two months, do you think that you would want my executor figuring out whose hair you would continue cutting after I was dead? Probably not. Some contracts die with the contracting party, and domain name registration contracts MAY well be that type of contract, in accordance with the non-assignability clause which is in just about every domain registration contract I've seen.

 

[DomainPairs]

But surely if you have a lease to rent property that can be an asset. If you have paid a gardner a year's advance to cut the lawn around your house - doesn't he have an obligation to cut the lawn for the rest of the year?

 

[jberryhilljberryhill is verified member.]

A lease IS a property interest.

The grass cutting thing is interesting, and it will depend on the terms of the contract. But the question is not whether the gardner will cut the lawn for the rest of the year. I have no doubt that dead people's domain names stay registered for the full term. The question is "If you have paid a gardener... then do your heirs have the right to renew that contract at the end of the year?" THAT would be up to the gardener, wouldn't you suppose?

For example, Paragraph 20 of the Verisign service agreement says:

"20. ASSIGNMENT AND RESALE. Except as otherwise set forth herein, your rights under this Agreement are not assignable or transferable. Any attempt by your creditors to obtain an interest in your rights under this Agreement, whether by attachment, levy, garnishment or otherwise, renders this Agreement voidable at our option."

Normally, contracts will include an express provision about whether the contract extends to "heirs, assigns, or successors in interest" etc. The Verisign contract has language that fairly strongly suggests otherwise. Again, they MAY decide to honor the request of an estate, but I believe they also may not. And I strongly believe that if they were dragged into a probate court, they would vigorously contend that it was a personal service contract which terminated upon the death of the registrant.

But you might say, "Then how can I sell a domain name?" For further discussion on that topic, go here http://www.open-rsc.org/essays/berryhill/property/

 

[DomainPairs]

Isn't life fun. Here's another thought for you.

If it looks as if I am going to become bankrupt (this is hypothetical) and I invested in domain names, could I retain ownership through the bankruptcy. I am assuming that I would be able to prove that this was not done to defraud the creditors

 

[Anthony Ng]

>DomainPairs: doesn't he have an obligation to cut the lawn for the rest of the year?

Yes for the gardener, provided that the house is not deserted. But how about something that is custom or specific to the person who died like a gym membership or some one-to-one mentor/training?

Actually, if it is just for renewal: most registrars wouldn't care you die or not. It used to be that ANYBODY can renew a domain at Verisign. I guess they have finally changed that. And with the paperless transfer getting more popular, unless the person who dies is of a really high profile, I don't think there will be any problem renewing a domain and even transferring ownership AFTER DEATH (although the latter is not particularly recommended).

 

[DomainPairs]

I'm sure you are right. I go on the theory that it's best to keep quiet and just do it. I am interested in the underlying theory though as there are always several ways to do anything.

 

[DNQuest.com]

jberryhill,

If a person passes away, if in thier will, they state to transfer all domains to George, wouldn't that be a legal means of transferring the domains to George?

The grass cutting example is a service (which would terminate upon death) while a domain is an asset (or at least percieved as an asset). They are different senarios, right?

 

[jberryhilljberryhill is verified member.]

"If a person passes away, if in thier will, they state to transfer all domains to George, wouldn't that be a legal means of transferring the domains to George? "

In their will they tell *who* to transfer their domains to George?

If, in my will, I instruct that my ashes are to be thrown at my ex-wife, that doesn't mean that someone is obligated to do it.

"The grass cutting example is a service (which would terminate upon death) while a domain is an asset (or at least percieved as an asset). They are different senarios, right?"

Verisign has spent millions of dollars on lawyers who, in all sorts of cases arising from all sorts of circumstances, will argue until their dying day that domain names ARE NOT property of any kind. Your domain name, as far as they are concerned, is simply a consequence of a contract between the registrant and the registrar. The subject of that contract is the provision of domain name registration services by the registrar to the registrant. Indeed, your question goes to the heart of the issue - a domain name, as far as the registrars are concerned, is not an "asset" which you own. Period. Finito. Full Stop.

Now, please, don't take this as conclusive of what a registrar might or might not do, in its discretion, if asked nicely.

But there is no registrar on the planet that is going to open itself up to being dragged into probate battles under the inheritance laws of every jurisdiction on the planet by admitting that these things are subject to wills or intestacy statutes. They are registrars, not global legal scholars.

But, hey, let's say I live a long and happy life, all of my relatives die before me, no next of kin can be located, and I leave no will. Are you suggesting that the registrar is legally obligated to transfer the domain name to the State of Delaware? That's where all of my assets would go in those circumstances.

It just gets too messy for the registrars if you drag in things like government seizures of assets, bankruptcy claims against assets, inheritance laws, and all of the other hundreds of years of legal baggage which attaches to 'property', and then tell the registrars "oh, yeah, you are liable for this in every legal system known to man".

 

[Shiftlock]

Originally posted by jberryhill
In their will they tell *who* to transfer their domains to George?

If, in my will, I instruct that my ashes are to be thrown at my ex-wife, that doesn't mean that someone is obligated to do it.

Okay, how about this - In my will I state that my cousin Ned, who has previously agreed to take responsibility for this, should log into my domain accounts with the passwords left in my safe deposit box, and transfer my domains to the people I decide I would like to have them. Would that be the way to do it?

By the way, if anyone would like to leave me their domains, PM me for my personal contact info.

 

[DNQuest.com]

"If a person passes away, if in thier will, they state to transfer all domains to George, wouldn't that be a legal means of transferring the domains to George? "

In their will they tell *who* to transfer their domains to George?

The "who" would be the executor or a person that knows what they are doing as far as transfering domains (as ordered by the executor)

I was trying to present a situation that shiftlock better clearly stated. Would that be legal means of transferring domains?

This is very interesting and I hope people are taking notes. Luckily for me, when I go, the names stays with the business.

I guess the best way to handle this situation... if you die, don't tell the registrar.

 

[Harry]

How are domain names treated in a divorce setlement?

 

[BobBob is verified member.]

Originally posted by Harry
How are domain names treated in a divorce setlement?

I never mentioned mine. My ex forgot about them (but then again, I had no good ones at the time).

-Bob

 

[Mizzoula]

lol @ Bob

Very good info here. I have all my passwords and pertinent info locked away in case I happen to take the Big Dirt Nap. Then my relatives will get it (one in particular already knows about me setting all this info aside), so I believe I've got my domains all "insured".

 

[DNQuest.com]

Originally posted by Harry
How are domain names treated in a divorce setlement?

That is actually a good question...

 

[Mizzoula]

The only legitimate problem I could see out of a divorce scenario is if both spouses were listed in the WhoIs. Then, if that were the case, one of the two could easily change the pertinent information and password before the other could get to it if they wanted the domain bad enough and then there would be no grounds on the other trying to gain the domain out of the settlement because they would not be listed in the WhoIs. Hence, there would be no proof that the one who changed the info did it without the other spouse's consent.

 

[jberryhilljberryhill is verified member.]

"How are domain names treated in a divorce setlement? "

This is the same question over, and over, like a bad dream.... In a divorce, one is concerned with the division of, ummm... oh what do you call it... umm... you know... "community", uh, something... gosh what's that word.... it has three syllables... it is that stuff that passes in an estate, or can be attached by creditors... Hey, I know, ask the guy that has www.crazy-bitch.com.

Forget wills, pre-nups, etc.... just keep a good chain of control over the admin contact email address, and you'll be fine.

 

[WildCard]

You could just incorporate and then have the corporation own the domain, couldn't you? The corporation lives on after death of founders, divorces, etc...

-WC-