For Sale DomainsBot

[Beachie]

Anyone else getting inundated with DomainsBot emails??

 

[Cash Is King]

I received 8 of the same emails tonight. I am sick of them. The service is a has been.

 

[Harmonia]

I received 3 tonight. The DomainCircle ones right? Darn, it keeps spamming now and then in loads! Very super irritating, any way to block it permanently without the need to filter it out and throw into the bin?

 

[JuniperPark]

I received over 20. I have demanded they stop sending me emails a few months ago after sending me about 20 in a day, and they agreed to stop.

This time they at first denied sending multiple copies then later said they are having 'technical issues'.

I'll be filing a complaint with their ISP next week. They agree to NEVER contact me again months ago.

 

[ExYahoo]

I received 8 of the same emails tonight. I am sick of them. The service is a has been.

There are alternative services out there.

What are the features you find particularly useful about DomainsBot over their competitors?

 

[RMF]

Yeah I've been getting them too. I unsubscribed to their list a long time ago, but somehow I'm back on it again.

 

[Jernet]

yep, me also. here i thought i was just special k:

 

[Nexus]

Ok... so, I think I'm recieving mailings from the LocalWhois connection at the end of 2002... but, man...

I've been receiving these "Domain Circle" "newsletters" automatically since October. Never signed up for them, never read through them (more than a "why am I getting this and what is it, quick glance"), but I was concerned they were FAKED with all the strange URLs and odd text inside them. Hoping they'd either stop coming or something else, I ignored them. I may have tried to unsubscribe earlier, but I can't remember at this point.

On the 10th of this month...

11/10/2004 7:31 AM   8KB  DomainsBot   DomainCIRCLE - 11/10/2004
11/10/2004 7:43 AM   8KB  DomainsBot   DomainCIRCLE - 11/10/2004
11/10/2004 7:50 AM   8KB  DomainsBot   DomainCIRCLE - 11/10/2004
11/10/2004 7:55 AM   8KB  DomainsBot   DomainCIRCLE - 11/10/2004
11/10/2004 7:59 AM   8KB  DomainsBot   DomainCIRCLE - 11/10/2004

Just today...

11/21/2004 11:45 AM   8KB  DomainsBot   DomainCIRCLE - 11/21/2004
11/21/2004 11:56 AM   8KB  DomainsBot   DomainCIRCLE - 11/21/2004
11/21/2004 12:03 AM   8KB  DomainsBot   DomainCIRCLE - 11/21/2004
11/21/2004 12:08 AM   8KB  DomainsBot   DomainCIRCLE - 11/21/2004
11/21/2004 12:12 AM   8KB  DomainsBot   DomainCIRCLE - 11/21/2004

I've just unsubscribed and made a note... and yet...

The email address has successfully been added to our "opt out" list. This list is updated approximately every 3-5 business days. At that time you will no longer receive emails from us. If you are a current DomainsBot member, you will receive only important messages related to your account. You can be added to our mailing list again at any time.

I still fail to understand WHY I cannot be removed IMMEDIATELY from future mailings. Also, the fact that I am ADDED to an "OPT-OUT" list, as opposed to being simply REMOVED, makes me realize that I'm getting all this mail due to Domainsbot acquiring e-mails addresses from a variety of sources and probably not merging them well. I checked the headers, and all of these e-mails are coming into the SAME address (as opposed to aliases). I can't understand why I need to be spammed this way.

FR*EE report shows you how easy it is to get paid with
domain parking. Make money DAILY without selling your
domain names, Just drop an email to:
[email protected] and you'll receive it instantly.

Doing that to the word "FREE" smacks of spamming, and its disturbing. I don't mind people making a living, but I'd appreciate not being smacked with multiple e-mails. Hopefully I won't be getting this anymore.

~ Nexus

 

[diverge]

Anyone else getting inundated with DomainsBot emails??

20 for me today. But then again I was a member there for a little while (not any longer).

Also, the fact that I am ADDED to an "OPT-OUT" list, as opposed to being simply REMOVED, makes me realize that I'm getting all this mail due to Domainsbot acquiring e-mails addresses from a variety of sources and probably not merging them well.

Maintaining an opt-out list (in addition to removing emails) is the only way to prevent sending to an email that has unsubscribed if you continue to buy/harvest lists. While it reeks of spamming, it is actually better for everyone all around (assuming it is actually used).

FR*EE

Even legitimate emailers have to do this now to avoid spam filters.

 

[Nexus]

Maintaining an opt-out list (in addition to removing emails) is the only way to prevent sending to an email that has unsubscribed if you continue to buy/harvest lists. While it reeks of spamming, it is actually better for everyone all around (assuming it is actually used).

That's my point exactly. If you're harvesting names en masse, and being highly indescriminate about your sources, you have to keep that on-going OPT-OUT list in the first place (which is bad). The horrible thing about an OPT-OUT list, is that eventually it becomes an interesting list for other purposes. Hey, these people OPTED-OUT. #1.) means they're real, right? I'm going to be willfully unreasonable about this practice I guess. IMO, if you obtain lists that are OPT-IN in the first place, its unnecessary.

Even legitimate emailers have to do this now to avoid spam filters.

I don't buy that at all. If mentioning "free" in your mailing, all in caps, will send you into the "suspicious" folder by default, something needs to be fixed with your spam filter. I think in terms of "scoring", I bet it "adds" to a "score", but that's for people who are conscious that they already "score" pretty high as SPAM. NO ONE legitimately sending e-mail should have to write in cryptic english with goofy *'s breaking up normal english words just to be seen... if they did, the Internet's just going into the toilet, and I can't accept that.

~ Nexus

 

[diverge]

That's my point exactly. If you're harvesting names en masse, and being highly indescriminate about your sources, you have to keep that on-going OPT-OUT list in the first place (which is bad). The horrible thing about an OPT-OUT list, is that eventually it becomes an interesting list for other purposes. Hey, these people OPTED-OUT. #1.) means they're real, right? I'm going to be willfully unreasonable about this practice I guess. IMO, if you obtain lists that are OPT-IN in the first place, its unnecessary.

No arguments there.

I don't buy that at all. If mentioning "free" in your mailing, all in caps, will send you into the "suspicious" folder by default, something needs to be fixed with your spam filter. I think in terms of "scoring", I bet it "adds" to a "score", but that's for people who are conscious that they already "score" pretty high as SPAM. NO ONE legitimately sending e-mail should have to write in cryptic english with goofy *'s breaking up normal english words just to be seen... if they did, the Internet's just going into the toilet, and I can't accept that.

You obviously don't do a whole lot of email marketing. What is spam to someone who doesn't want your email is desired to another use who did request your marketing email. The only difference is whether they opted in or not -- which no spam filter can know inherently except by whitelisting. Whitelisting, unfortunately, is not available with all spam filters, and for those that do offer it, 99% of end-users will not configure it properly for your mailing. Unfortunately for those people involved in legitimate email marketing, more and more legitimate email is being flagged as spam, therefore, legitimate email marketers must resort to tricking the spam filters to maximize delivery. This is a sad, but very true, reality.

Just for the record, even though many of you are getting the DomainsBot periodic email against your will (it is spam to you), I did opt in to receive it (they contacted me as a former customer, and I opted in), and therefore it is not spam to me (at least one copy is not spam -- the other 19 I received is certainly annoying).

 

[ExYahoo]

There are alternative services out there.

What are the features you find particularly useful about DomainsBot over their competitors?

You guys must have signed up with DomainsBot originally because they had services/features you liked the look of.

What are you looking for in a replacement service? Maybe I can help.

 

[Nexus]

You obviously don't do a whole lot of email marketing. What is spam to someone who doesn't want your email is desired to another use who did request your marketing email. The only difference is whether they opted in or not -- which no spam filter can know inherently except by whitelisting. Whitelisting, unfortunately, is not available with all spam filters, and for those that do offer it, 99% of end-users will not configure it properly for your mailing. Unfortunately for those people involved in legitimate email marketing, more and more legitimate email is being flagged as spam, therefore, legitimate email marketers must resort to tricking the spam filters to maximize delivery. This is a sad, but very true, reality.

I'm still going to hold to what I'm saying, if for no other reason than this is NOT the way things should be. If I write a letter to a friend of mine, and I say... "Hey, I have FREE tickets to the Sox game!", and my e-mail gets caught in their spam filter, what that DOESn't mean, is that I wrote my e-mail wrong. Likewise, if I write e-mail to a bunch of my subscribers, and I have a subsection called ":: FREE OFFERS THIS MONTH ::", or if any of the many mailing lists I have says things like "We are pleased to announce that [SOFTWARE PRODUCT] 3.5.1 is now available. This is a FREE update to 3.5. This new release improves reliability and includes enhancements." I'm sorry, but legitimate e-mailers simply should NOT have to resort to MUNGING their message simply to get PAST a spam filter. Maybe sticking to a few simple rules like "Don't write SUBJECT lines all in CAPITAL LETTERS", "Don't EVER mention the word "penis", and "Avoid using BCC if you can, send individual messages." is fine. Rules like "Don't use normal parts of the english language." Don't make any sense. In my opinion, in the long run we all will lose more than gain if both spammers AND legitimate mailers are left munging their mails.

Spammers generally have other characteristics that should get them caught. And YES, legitimate mailers should sign-up to WHITELISTS whenever possible (AOL's being a major one). Yes, I would distinguish a "legitimate" mailer as someone getting *permission* before sending massive e-mail campaigns to those recipients. My problem with DB's e-mail is that it comes across as something that knows many of its recipients did not ask for it. Like I said, I was signed up for the LocalWhois API. I may even have signed up for their newsletter, but I didn't ask to suddenly start getting 5 everytime it went out. The definitely seems like someone merged a bunch of lists very badly.

I've personally had to abandon spam filters that caused me to miss important e-mails. After a while its not worth it. It was my choice to use the spam filter, and infectiveness should cause me to stop using it. The people sending me e-mail shouldn't become more and more like spammers (w0uld yu0 l1k3 some fr1es with that s4ake?), JUST to get through. I should recognize when my e-mail and/or newsletters are't coming through and eventually FIX it. The senders shouldn't start sending unprofessional looking gobble-de-e-mail just to get through my lame software.

~ Nexus

 

[ExYahoo]

I've personally had to abandon spam filters that caused me to miss important e-mails. After a while its not worth it. It was my choice to use the spam filter, and infectiveness should cause me to stop using it. The people sending me e-mail shouldn't become more and more like spammers (w0uld yu0 l1k3 some fr1es with that s4ake?), JUST to get through. I should recognize when my e-mail and/or newsletters are't coming through and eventually FIX it. The senders shouldn't start sending unprofessional looking gobble-de-e-mail just to get through my lame software.

Have you used anti-spam plugins based on Bayesian Filtering?

The one that ships with Eudora for example comes pre-trained and after clicking on the few spams that get through in the first few days it is trained and only lets a few spams through that you click to mark as a new type of spam.

Now I find I get 0% false positives (real emails misfiled as spam) and 99%-99.98% of spam correctly removed to the Spam folder automagically.

http://www.spam-blockers.com/articles/bayesian-filter.html
http://www.paulgraham.com/filters.html

 

[diverge]

I'm still going to hold to what I'm saying, if for no other reason than this is NOT the way things should be...In my opinion, in the long run we all will lose more than gain if both spammers AND legitimate mailers are left munging their mails.

Agreed. In a perfect world, you are 100% correct. In the short-run reality, though, "munging" your emails is simply a better way to ensure higher visibility, regardless of whether it is, in fact, spam or not.

 

[mole]

In the short-run reality, though, "munging" your emails is simply a better way to ensure higher visibility, regardless of whether it is, in fact, spam or not.

hmm, how does that logic work again?

That's nothing worse than spam, than a spam script went bananas. :-(

 

[diverge]

hmm, how does that logic work again?

Here we go again.

I was summing up my portion of the conversation above. In short -- legitimate emailers sometimes resort to spammer-type techniques to ensure the highest possible visibility on their emails, because if they don't, spam filters on their subscriber's computers/ISPs will block their legitimate (i.e., NON-spam) emails. This is unfortunate, but it is true.

 

[Nexus]

Have you used anti-spam plugins based on Bayesian Filtering?

Sure. I'm still in the process of migrating from Outlook to Thunderbird. I'm one of those unlocky people who are expremely busy, have hundreds of thousands of e-mails to convert, and a fear of commitment. At some point I fully plan to take a weekend and do it. It was a toss up between Thunderbird and Apple Mail. I need the interoperability though.

Agreed. In a perfect world, you are 100% correct. In the short-run reality, though, "munging" your emails is simply a better way to ensure higher visibility, regardless of whether it is, in fact, spam or not.

We MAKE the world we live in. I understand what you're saying, but I guess I'd make a point to correspond with my customers about FILTERS that may induce "false positives", instead of throwing in with spammer tactics. Makes everyone look bad. When a Bayseian filter algorithm picks up your mails and dumps them because they contain spammer munging, I think you'd have to agree. The methods that involve simply finding certain strings of letters is highly flawed, and should be exposed as such. Having spam *affect* us is inevitable, but I refuse to let spamming *define* how we communicate with each other on the net.

You're right though, I don't run lots of campaigns, but I would have to say I favor using "alternate words" than munging type in order to get maximum exposure. It really doesn't look professional.

~ Nexus

 

[mole]

legitimate emailers sometimes resort to spammer-type techniques to ensure the highest possible visibility on their emails, because if they don't, spam filters on their subscriber's computers/ISPs will block their legitimate (i.e., NON-spam) emails. This is unfortunate, but it is true.

Really? That's vile. Two wrongs don't make a right. Haven't they heard of spf, senderid or bonded sender programs?

 

[diverge]

Really? That's vile. Two wrongs don't make a right. Haven't they heard of spf, senderid or bonded sender programs?

SPF and SenderID are anti-spoof technologies. Not anti-spam. When will everyone realize they do NOTHING to decrease spamming (as long as .INFOs are free, there is nothing preventing a spammer from using a different domain every week -- why resort to spoofing?)

Bonded Sender is just a glorified whitelist and requires a client-side plug-in, and you know how much we all love plug-ins (see separate thread on New.net, IDNs, etc.). The problem is that in the REAL world, the everyday common user doesn't use whitelists, and email marketers know this.

Yes, the Internet is improving. And yes, someday legitimate marketers can rest easy and say whatever they want in their emails without fearing false-positives. But TODAY, in the REAL WORLD, there are some words that will put you "over the edge" and into the spam-bucket. Tactics such as breaking up "tell-tale" keywords (such as "FR*EE") as well as limiting ALL-CAPS and "marketing-speak" is a wise move if you are concerned about readership.