For EVERY member of this forum to read!

[Andrew Shaw]

I remember a time, not all too long ago... Where a young man, about my age, with the name of andrew walked into this forum. He had never seen such a thing. An entire community, of such fine business people. Co-existing among a highly competetive industry. The young man was amazed. He had never seen something with so many different people being involved. He looked up to the forum, the admins, the mods, the people; and particularly the older members with EXCLUSIVE titles. He wanted so badly to become an individual like what he was seeing. He wanted to work in a business that had absolutely no limitations. Things started changing though. Members began to forget what this forum is really about. Members started bashful posts, off topic conversations and rude, non professional behavior.

This forum needs to step up. I entered this business as if it were something special. I began to relize, how big this business was growing, and how MANY people are watching everything we say and every way we behave. We NEED to make a better name for ourselves. This is an increadable business we are in. Lets not !!!! this up. Our man-power is outragious, if we are all splitting up our own ways, we will surely lose a LOT of the strenth we would have had. Use the numbers to our ability. We dont all have to get along every seccond, and we can disagree on anything we want. But get over it and get on with it. We have no time to waste!

Im not a preacher, Im not trying to preach. I dont care what you all think of me now... Its something I feel that needed to be said.

 

[Andrew Shaw]

I remember a time, not all too long ago... Where a young man, about my age, with the name of andrew walked into this forum. He had never seen such a thing. An entire community, of such fine business people. Co-existing among a highly competetive industry. The young man was amazed. He had never seen something with so many different people being involved. He looked up to the forum, the admins, the mods, the people; and particularly the older members with EXCLUSIVE titles. He wanted so badly to become an individual like what he was seeing. He wanted to work in a business that had absolutely no limitations. Things started changing though. Members began to forget what this forum is really about. Members started bashful posts, off topic conversations and rude, non professional behavior.

This forum needs to step up. I entered this business as if it were something special. I began to relize, how big this business was growing, and how MANY people are watching everything we say and every way we behave. We NEED to make a better name for ourselves. This is an increadable business we are in. Lets not !!!! this up. Our man-power is outragious, if we are all splitting up our own ways, we will surely lose a LOT of the strenth we would have had. Use the numbers to our ability. We dont all have to get along every seccond, and we can disagree on anything we want. But get over it and get on with it. We have no time to waste!

Im not a preacher, Im not trying to preach. I dont care what you all think of me now... Its something I feel that needed to be said.

 

[Estrange]

Well said Ashaw. I'm with you all the words you've said.
Some people are trying to compromise this business and spoil this relationship and trust and will be in the future.
We have to stick together as a community and maybe forum admins should be more active.
Admins should have extensive knowledge, always reachable, kind and helpful that we can always trust their words; like a father figure
I'm not saying that I don't trust admins here. It's just a general principle that I would like to see at all forums.

 

[Bill Roy]

Ashaw was one of the first domainers I came across, actually on another forum that I think is now defunct, but the thing I learned was that he generally only says something when it is worth saying (something I have yet to achieve). I obviously do not agree with all his views but I know his views are always worth taking into account.

I personnally feel that this industry is still in its infancy, yes it is exciting, but those who realise this will be the winners. At the moment we talk of the domaining industry being valued at a few billion dollars, in 5 years time we will be talking hundreds of billions of dollars. If we fragment into small bickering factions, jealously arguing and insulting each other the only winners will be the big corporations and financiers who will swallow us up as individuals without even blinking.

Ashaw, thank you for your post and making me think again just where and how I should be acting here on the forum.

 

[Keynes]

Next time I'm in DC, I'll buy you a beer.

 

[A D]

Ashaw,

That was well said, when i first took over the forum everything was hush hush and those that shared were accused of giving away trade secrets. That changed a lot and people shared for a while.

With premium domains getting scarcer and scarcer people are afraid to share knowledge while they do a land grab.

This will soon pass once those doing the land grabs run out of $, then they will all share.

What's interesting is the ones cashing out on the domains should be the ones doing the land grab and placing it back into the industry in other newer domains but this does not always happen.


-=DCG=-

 

[BobDiGiTaL]

What's interesting is the ones cashing out on the domains should be the ones doing the land grab and placing it back into the industry in other newer domains but this does not always happen.

Are you saying the BIG domain sellers are leaving the domain business and not reinvesting in domains?
I invest 100% of all domain earnings from sales and parked revenue. Doesn't everyone?

 

[A D]

They should, but not all of them do.

-=DCG=-

 

[UDLTD]

That's kinda of sad.. It's almost like losing faith? How can one lose faith when the bulk of names continue to raise in value? The .com days aren't dead. They're only just beginning. People are unable to come along anymore and simply register what they want .. and more people are trying daily because instead of running a local business selling to local people more and more people are realizing there is millions upon millions of people on the internet to market to worldwide and thier costs are cut down to do so (IE no overhead or little) compared to running a storefront and a traditional business. The money isn't just in premiums anymore. It's almost in whatever relevant domain a business can actually aquire. We're seeing more and more hyphenated domains being used for business as well. I agree with Mr Shaw and whatnot. This business is definately big enough to show some friendly attitude towards those who do it regularily. We aren't so small now. Corporate America is now finding domain speculation viable and no one's a simple cybersquatter anymore.. well except people who insist on using TM typos.. but by rights they shouldn't talk out loud for obvious reasons.

 

[melmunch]

They should, but not all of them do.

I love domains, and the returns you can make in domains more than justify the fairly low risk in the industry.

Nevertheless, no one should put 100% of their money in any one industry. Ever.

 

[Rockefeller]

Wow...

 

[UDLTD]

When I first started. I tried parking all my names. Almost no return on the investment because like anyone else who didnt buy up everything in the 90's the generic value of most of my starting domains were crap. Since January I've started developing some of mine and the revenue increases are staggering compared. I think parking is on it's way out as search engines begin to penalize ad cluttered pages but real content even on a so so domain is going to see traffic. For all those with niche domains no one wanted to buy due to them being niche .. develop them ! I'm in no way earning a fortune but doing 10X the revenue I was making parking.

no one should put 100% of their money in any one industry.

(I'm not sure I've found a viable investment industry with less risk than domaining)

 

[A D]

Ashaw,

regarding this below, you will find the tone changes quite a bit over the next week.

-=DCG=-

Members started bashful posts, off topic conversations and rude, non professional behavior.

 

[GT Web]

in 5 years time we will be talking hundreds of billions of dollars.

Time for a reality check.

The domain industry still has its fair share of problems. Other than the very best premium domains, most of the industry revolves around domainers flipping names back and forth with few ever making it into the hands of end users.

People are paying 10+ years revenue for traffic names, which is insane. 10 years on the internet is like a millennium. We already know Microsoft dislikes parked domain names - all it would take is Google and or Microsoft to make small changes in the way IE and Firefox (or Google's browser if it ever makes one) work and it could kill much of the PPC industry. Furthermore, PPC is horribly unstable. CPM was the internet's first advertising craze - and over time people realized that wasn't an efficient way to do business. Then CPC took over - but click fraud is slowly destroying it. CPA is the wave of the future - you are already seeing the transition within Adwords. The slow demise of the PPC industry will take many people down with it.

As I said, the very best domains will continue to gain tremendous value. However, 99% of the domains sold (on this forum and elsewhere) will just continue to be flipped around the internet and will never amount to much. If you're new in this industry, it's nearly impossible to get momentum in this day and age.

Are we poised for another 2000-esque domain crash? No, but the industry is along way from being secure long term. Just think about the fact that Microsoft and or Google could basically destroy our industry anytime they wish (and eventually this might become a profitable route for them to take).

That being said, professionalism is always nice

 

[JMJ]

It's been several years in the making. The reseller market has pretty much dried up. If you go back through the sales forums over the course of the past two years you'll see a steady decline in buyer bumps. And it's not just here. Slap a few names on ebay at give away prices and see how many bites you get. Check out Afternic's "closing soon" it's about 1/5 of what it use to be. Around the time when names started going primarily to auction is when reseller sales bottomed out, nothing but a slow trickle since. The only way I've made any money since was buying low, selling in bulk real low and each time my profit margins got slimmer.

Like Adam said the big boys are throwing money around but they are throwing it around on high dollar names and portfolios. Those who cashed out did so likely due to burnout and/or of course the nice $$ offer. It's very unlikely they will go out and spend their new found fortune on over-priced domains/portfolio's. They'll likely invest elsewhere until.?.. Or maybe shop around for a portfolio or two they can buy and flip to the deep pockets for a few extra large ones.

And as Adam said those who have been around don't want to give those "many eyes" assistance in putting them out of business. I think it will be a few years before the tide turns. Once the V.C's start disposing of names that aren't holding their own to maximize their profits then you should be sitting around waiting.

Those who have been in the business for years and made a living on the reseller market such as myself are and have been looking for new and more creative ways to stay afloat. My new bread earner no longer involves domains. Yep back on someone else's payroll after 3 years. Not much of a job market for a domainer I'll tell you.. haha

 

[Tom K.]

I think that there are 3 primary ways to ensure stability:

1. Develop
2. Develop
3. Develop

(Development = original content development/creation, not cookie-cutter MFA sites.)

It's the only way to ensure longevity: i.e. residual and steady flow of income. Even if CPC, CPA, or whatever shifts to whatever or PPC parking goes belly up, the traffic can still be monetized.

Unless you get the huge sale that keeps you going for a few years and/or you can invest the money in stocks, etc, development is the way to go. You are building authority and have more monetizing options.

But in any case, professionalism always must be part of the game. Otherwise you lose face and you just lose. Each and every post/interaction you make should in some way be productive and contribute in a positive way to your life or someone else's. Bashing, trashing, overall rudeness is just a waste of valuable time (time you could spend developing).

 

[GT Web]

I think that there are 3 primary ways to ensure stability:

1. Develop
2. Develop
3. Develop

(Development = original content development/creation, not cookie-cutter MFA sites.)

Well said. CPA is the wave of the future and is pretty easy to get started with. If you want a couple recommendations on good affiliate companies you can PM me. Its much more fun getting $15+ when someone signs up for something than $0.03 when someone clicks on one of your ads.

 

[Tom K.]

Its much more fun getting $15+ when someone signs up for something than $0.03 when someone clicks on one of your ads.

True. Additionally, if someone clicks on one of your ads they leave your site likely for good. If you develop an original site, you can acquire their email address via a newsletter or special offer sign-up and build a targeted email list and thus build relationships with your visitors, even if they leave your site.

 

[JMJ]

Development takes a lot of time and some times a lot money. If your plans are to sell the name you might as well forget getting many inquiries from people wanting to buy when developed. On the plus side if you do you're almost guaranteed a sell. 9 times out of 10 you will get as much money from it if you would have just parked the name. I've done a lot of all over the years. If you like developing then great that might be a good way to learn and make a few dollars. If you like buying and selling development is generally going to reduce your ROI on a sale when you factor in time and money spent.

Don't assume when you throw up a site your name is now worth more. I've spent several days each on a lot of sites thinking this only to sell the name and site at a reseller price. If I broke down my hourly rate on most of them I would have been working for dollars an hour and at times they might have ventured into cents an hour counting the names value. I also have a server full of nameless sites. Because the name sold, and not the site. To me a developer spends all of their time on 1 or a few large sites. A domainer by nature wants to acquire more and more names. There are only so many names one person can develop and/or manage. Unique content on even a small domainers portfolio is virtually impossible without dynamic content.

I spent 10 months working on 100 city sites a few years ago. It actually only took about a 3 weeks to get them live due to them being dynamic content but there was still loads of upkeep. Spending every waken hour updating sites and such for those many months, making a few dollars a day and looking forward to renewal fees I decided to sell them off. The only interested buyer I got bought them at a give away price. He then redeveloped, tossing out all my work. Last time we spoke and several years down the road he said they were paying their own bills but thats about it. I do have to say though if he would have left them the way I had them developed he would be doing much better. I had PPC feeds and google ads running. With the PPC search engine getting indexed I had 100k+ pages indexed and they were growing rapidly. He changed them over to 10 page sites with just city information and google ads. If he were to sell now he would likely get more by selling the names individually than he would on factors of revenue from the sites.

 

[Tom K.]

Thanks, JMJ, for the input. Very valuable experience and lessons.

If you are hoping for a quick sale, then yes, development doesn't make sense. Quality of the domain name, too, impacts the perception of a developed site. If the buyer really wants the domain and is willing to pay for it they will pay whether it is developed or not, but, if it is developed you have additional bargaining chips.

If you are happy and doing well with income from strictly reselling or parking and not concerned about the future, then by all means stay with it.

If you go the development route, I find it is important to have one or a few that can be considered "flagship" sites in your network. Sites that you know you will stick to thick-and-thin. Also, you need business direction and a definite plan (which is beyond the scope of this post). For example, my "flagship" sites have attracted advertisers and other clients whose revenue equaled about a year's of that of Adsense and in only a month or two. I have other sites that can be considered "hybrids", semi-developed which I will get to eventually, but currently do cross promotion with them. This is not to say I didn't spend a LOT of time and hard work, plus money. But I feel it all is paying off, albeit over time.

The goal is achieving high levels of targeted traffic and finding a way to monetize it best.

In this business, as in any other, I believe that stability is achieved through investment of: 1. time 2. money 3. hard work 4. professionalism, 5. honesty, 6. quality, etc. (Not necessarily in that order)