Iran cracks down on dress codes

[Duckinla]

This was the reason I went to where I did with the sweatshops and to indentured servitude being far worse than women being made to cut their hair or wear specific clothing.

But now you have your own opression that you want to liberate people from. How, boycott? Would you rather people starve in obscurity or live on streets than have to see them work in conditions that you don't agree with? Yes, my post was meant to be humourus, but also meant to provoke thought. What was the condition of these children before they had sweatshops to work in? People often go into difficult work situations because it is an economic step up, not a step down. Who are you to say they can't have that opportunity any more? Or do you think you can just triple the salaries and improve the conditions and the jobs will still be there?

 

[Sarcle]

But now you have your own opression that you want to liberate people from. How, boycott? Would you rather people starve in obscurity or live on streets than have to see them work in conditions that you don't agree with? Yes, my post was meant to be humourus, but also meant to provoke thought. What was the condition of these children before they had sweatshops to work in? People often go into difficult work situations because it is an economic step up, not a step down. Who are you to say they can't have that opportunity any more? Or do you think you can just triple the salaries and improve the conditions and the jobs will still be there?

Well it has to start somewhere. We had indentured servants, slavery, and child workers too. For one the reason I posted the link I did it seems the government of the PI is content on those that are against the current mold speaking out against the conditions being assassinated and doing nothing about it.

So now you are arguing for child labor, indentured servants, and slavery? And comparing that to women cutting their hair? Please.

 

[Duckinla]

So now you are arguing for child labor, indentured servants, and slavery? And comparing that to women cutting their hair? Please.

I don't know why you throw in slavery but other than that yes. I have given enough money to women and children on the streets of Mexico that I will argue against any efforts by well-intentioned people to take away what small opportunities they may have. I respect the intentions, I just think that you are seeing it from a viewpoint that is distant and idealistic. Just because you didn't see the suffering before the sweatshop doesn't mean it didn't exist. You can't force the growth timeline of developing nations anymore than you can force the timeline of democracy in Iraq. You will end up with the opposite result of what you were hoping for. This is crawling. They have to do this before they can walk. If you try to force them to walk to quickly they will fall down. Make factory jobs overly lucrative and watch people shoot each other for them. Watch teachers and police officers leave their jobs to work in factories.

 

[Sarcle]

Well I disagree, but that's okay.

You can't force the growth timeline of developing nations anymore than you can force the timeline of democracy in Iraq.

All points aside. There will be no democracy in Iraq. There is a civil war. And the side that wins is going to be much much more vengeful than Saddam ever was.

 

[Duckinla]

All points aside. There will be no democracy in Iraq. There is a civil war. And the side that wins is going to be much much more vengeful than Saddam ever was.

We had a civil war in this country once. We are still sorting out our democracy 200 years later. It's not a short process. Look at Ireland and the fighting between different Christian beliefs. These differences do not mean that democracy is impossible.

But with labor, imagine you went into a developing nation and you tripled the wages of all factory workers. Can you understand the chaos that would create? The runaway inflation, battles for resources, battles for jobs, etc? Suddenly factory jobs and wages are completely out of sinc with other occupations. Just look at the impact that a long reduction in interest rates had on home prices in the US. That's what would happen to food and materials prices in those countries. Others would be left out.

 

[Sarcle]

We had a civil war in this country once. We are still sorting out our democracy 200 years later. It's not a short process. Look at Ireland and the fighting between different Christian beliefs. These differences do not mean that democracy is impossible.

But with labor, imagine you went into a developing nation and you tripled the wages of all factory workers. Can you understand the chaos that would create? The runaway inflation, battles for resources, battles for jobs, etc? Suddenly factory jobs and wages are completely out of sinc with other occupations. Just look at the impact that a long reduction in interest rates had on home prices in the US. That's what would happen to food and materials prices in those countries. Others would be left out.

Major difference. We had been running a democracy already even if it was an infant; still knew how to keep it running. Iraq has been under a dictatorship and it's the only thing they know. It is also now home to many many people that hate us for very good reason. These fighters fighting in this civil war are getting their weapons somewhere. Where do you think they are getting them? They are going to take the side of who is funding them. It is a much different situation.

 

[Duckinla]

These fighters fighting in this civil war are getting their weapons somewhere. Where do you think they are getting them? They are going to take the side of who is funding them. It is a much different situation.

Good, then you must agree that we need to stay and win this fight. Certainly we did not take control of Iraq from Saddam just to hand it over to the next challenger.

 

[Sarcle]

Good, then you must agree that we need to stay and win this fight. Certainly we did not take control of Iraq from Saddam just to hand it over to the next challenger.

Nope, never should have went in the first place. Saddam may have been a brutal dictator and killed thousands of his people. What have we done? We kill the brutal dictator and kill hundreds of thousands of his people.

 

[Raider]

What was the condition of these children before they had sweatshops to work in? People often go into difficult work situations because it is an economic step up, not a step down. Who are you to say they can't have that opportunity any more? Or do you think you can just triple the salaries and improve the conditions and the jobs will still be there?

Well said Duck, its nice to see that somebody on this forum gets it.

I dont think this is the right thread to get into this any further.. let me just say that I have never seen or heard of "Forced" labor in the garment industry, I think sexual predators and perverts from the USA and Europe are much more prevalent!

 

[Duckinla]

We kill the brutal dictator and kill hundreds of thousands of his people

Who has killed "hundreds of thousands of his people" We? Or the new challenger that we fight against?. You just said something about insurgents being supplied by others. Why don't you put the blame where it belongs? What are they doing with those supplies? Saddam was taken out quickly. And insurgents have killed thousands since. How dare you lay that at the feet of the American military. I don't even know what to say to that. It's vile. Those guys are in harms way trying to stop insurgents from killing the next busload of school children. And you blame them for the civilian deaths? How can you have become so twisted? Can you hate George Bush that much? Can you possibly mean what you are saying, or is it just Hate-Bush speech? I don't think you mean it. I think it's just one of those things that sounds good to a war protestor, so you say it. Not thinking about what a horrible thing it is to say.

 

[Sarcle]

Who has killed "hundreds of thousands of his people" We? Or the new challenger that we fight against?. You just said something about insurgents being supplied by others. Why don't you put the blame where it belongs? What are they doing with those supplies? Saddam was taken out quickly. And insurgents have killed thousands since. How dare you lay that at the feet of the American military. I don't even know what to say to that. It's vile. Those guys are in harms way trying to stop insurgents from killing the next busload of school children. And you blame them for the civilian deaths? How can you have become so twisted? Can you hate George Bush that much?

We started the war. Therefore those deaths are a result of what we have done.

I don't believe that is a twisted statement. That is the view by the majority of the world and of the majority of the American people. Which is why we are hated and despised and why George's approval ratings are what they are.

We should have never started this war. We had a chance to be the hero's after 9/11 but Bush had to finish his father's war. And he can't even do that.

And yes I do hate George Bush that much.

 

[Duckinla]

We started the war. Therefore those deaths are a result of what we have done.

Now that's a different statement than saying that we killed hundreds of thousands. Of course they are the result of what we have done. And deaths in Africa are a result of what we have not done. If we did something in Africa, deaths there would be the result of what we have done. That does not imply blame or responsibility.

 

[Sarcle]

And deaths in Africa are a result of what we have not done. If we did something in Africa, deaths there would be the result of what we have done. That does not imply blame or responsibility.

It is not our responsibility to be the world police.

 

[Raider]

Pred always starts these Popcorn threads op2:

 

[PRED]

Pred always starts these Popcorn threads op2:

You found me out gorgeous :smilewinkgrin:
:washing:LOL

 

[AhmedF]

Well said Duck, its nice to see that somebody on this forum gets it.

I dont think this is the right thread to get into this any further.. let me just say that I have never seen or heard of "Forced" labor in the garment industry, I think sexual predators and perverts from the USA and Europe are much more prevalent!

Holy crap delusional. Anyone who advocates a child working sewing clothes is ... well ... no comment.

 

[Raider]

Holy crap delusional. Anyone who advocates a child working sewing clothes is ... well ... no comment.

Anyone who overlooks what they read and creates something that isn't there, is the delusional one. Just where am I advocating child labor?

 

[AhmedF]

You agreed with someone who said child labor isn't so bad. On top of this, you pull out the 'Ive never heard of forced child labor'

Its funny - I've been to Philippines twice and seen (what is effectively) forced child labor - perhaps start with your own backyard

 

[Raider]

You agreed with someone who said child labor isn't so bad.

If you have a problem with what someone else wrote, why dont you quote him on it? and NO, I dont advocate child labor, although in 3rd world countries such as the Philippines, children do what they can to feed their families, its the way of life, I did it myself when I was young, but it appears you know much more about it from your 2 trips to the PI than my 19 years born and raised there.....you have NO idea what your talking about.