On Frank Schilling and The End of Domaining

[sasquatch]

It's easy to say that those who who challenge the big guy's gospel must be bitter at their success. And that's precisely what the "big guys" would like you to believe. No man, maybe we don't give a damn how much "Franks' " make, but we do give a damn in what they say, and what they do.

While the due has to be given for their "sticking with my approach" approach, and for their simple insight, it still doesn't change the fact that for the most part they are now engaged in fluffing their own portfolios. On Frank's example, he isn't sharing his "insight" for you and me (only a clueless idiot thinks that), instead what is he doing is he is courting potential suitors, he is sending a mating call to prospective buyers of his portfolio, he's trying to open their eyes and have them to see the world from his rosy-colored perspective. His is a corporate song, and not an everyman song. And it is easy for him to share his "insight" now that his "cover is blown" and the "cat is out of the bag" after amassing 300,000+ names. Why wasn't he sharing his "insight" back in '01? There's nothing too spectacular about the success of guys like Frank who started in domains with fat lines of cash. When he started in domains he had access to more cash than 99.9% of the people of this world will ever see (let alone earn) in their lives. In other words he was already rich. And speaking of insight, what he is preaching to the uninitiated masses is not terribly insightful either. Yes, of course you can make an online business out of RumCakes.com, and many such other examples, but that's like saying you will be in good physical shape, if you eat a little, healthy and you excercise a lot - yet the America is full of obese mother****ers who are licking deep fried ice-creams like there's no manana. Conventional wisdom for the world that behaves anything but. If anything, for most small timers and beginners Franks is very dangerous ideologue, especially in the miniscule moments when he repeatedly tells you that you can make a living from domains even if you start with 5k now (while at the same time steadfastedly refusing to buy any domains from you even when they are steals).

Even more so with Elequa, it's easy to "change the face of the Internet landscape" (what a load of meanigless fluff that term is) when you have access to your family's unlimited amounts of money.

Same for many others.

And who is that Sahar dude? Just dropped from the Mars, and his mug now everywhere? An authority all of a sudden?

And did you notice that majority of DN Journal sales happen at Monte's company (just like in the times when DNJournals reported unverifiable sales, and I have objected to that), at Snapnames, at BuyDomains. And did you notice STILL how many domains that were claimed to be sold for megabux, still languish at the exact same pre-sales landing pages even months after the sale. Hmmmm...

For the most part, pure domaining is dead. And I mean domaining with the intention of becoming rich. The fat roles and plum assignments have already been given/taken/stolen, and what is left is the circle jerk of fat cats (most of whom were already rich prior to switching to the benefits of this media vanity business, and easy availability of thirld world mail-order brides) and who are mutually stroking each others' members', while the random hornies watch from outside salivating at the prospects of joining in.

And no amounts of Dn Journal (and other printed "industry trades") "industry coverage" will change that fact. The sooner you realize that fact, the better will be for you lil' fella.

 

[dcristo]

Yes, of course you can make an online business out of RumCakes.com, and many such other examples, but that's like saying you will be in good physical shape, if you eat a little, healthy and you excercise a lot - yet the America is full of obese mother****ers

I don't get the comparison if there is any? If your selling rum cakes on the internet, you want RumCakes.com How is that untrue?

 

[sasquatch]

I don't get the comparison if there is any? If your selling rum cakes on the internet, you want RumCakes.com How is that untrue?

It is true,

but only in the same way that if you want to be an attractive physical specimen, you can't be obese.

Yet, the America is full of obese people.

Why?

Maybe because they don't give a damn? Or they do, but still can't help their sloshy minds and fat fingers. Just because people know something is good for them, doesn't mean they will adhere to it. Real life is something else.

To sell rum cakes on the net, you only need an internet access, some site, merchant interface and a domain. Any domain. Preferrably with the word RumCakes in it,

,but it doesn't have to be RumCakes.com

FranksRumCakes.com could just as do,

so could BettysRumCakes.com,

and not only can you sell Rum Cakes through it, you get yourself a little brand name going on.

In the same ways Gino's Pizza doesn't sell only pizzas, they sell Gino's Pizzas.

Etc. Etc.

...

That's why the mainstream America will never get the concept of what Frank is talking about. His ideas are preferrable, but unneccessary (and often even downright wrong from most startups). And like a good Sisyphus he is, he's trying to teach America's to change their ingrained-in-their-business-dna habits, while not knowing much about branding and why people brand.

 

[dcristo]

So are you saying make investment decisions based on what people don't want? I am totally confused the point your trying to make...

 

[sasquatch]

So are you saying make investment decisions based on what people don't want? I am totally confused the point your trying to make...

I edited my last post for further clarification.

 

[dcristo]

I can't agree with you man. There are many reasons why you would want a premium domain name. Credibility, type-in traffic, SEO, selling the best "rum cakes"... the list could go on... The anonymity of the internet is even more reason to be credible.

 

[sasquatch]

I can't agree with you man. There are many reasons why you would want a premium domain name. Credibility, type-in traffic, SEO, selling the best "rum cakes"... the list could go on... The anonymity of the internet is even more reason to be credible.

Well, let me put it this way. RumCakes.com was picked up on a drop by Frank for "only" $4,100.

Therefore we can freely conclude that every potential online seller of rumcakes in this world didn't know or care about this to go beyond $4,000. Right now that is. What Franks'of this world are tryint to tell merchants of this world is that they (the merchants) will be better off by employing a certain generic domain. What he is also telling to hundreds/thousands/hundreds of thousands of merchants is that the best way is only one way.

He's telling hundreds of thousands of merchants to go generic. Problem with generics is that they are finite. Usually one proper generic per category ("premium"). Therefore, as a result of the nature of such proposition 100s of thousands of merchants are supposed to feel like idiots because they can't or won't secure one "premium" generic, no?

 

[BobDiGiTaL]

For the most part, pure domaining is dead. And I mean domaining with the intention of becoming rich

sasquatch, You're stoned.
Since you came here in December of '03, maybe you should have "hoarded" domains as well. You could be "rich," too.

Sounds like sour grapes.

Every time I see the sales of names in DNJournal, it reconfirmes in my mind, domaining will never be dead.

 

[dcristo]

Problem with generics is that they are finite. Usually one proper generic per category ("premium").

The internet is only going to get more competitive every year, with more people selling and using the internet. If gaining a competitive advantage will mean getting the premium generic, then so be it.

As for the statement above, that's exactly what makes them valuable.

 

[BonkersTwo]

If it is any consolation, I am the one who bid $4k on RumCakes.com and the only place I know that sells rum cakes is Cayman, I stopped bidding on the domain since it didn't seem to offer a realistic way to "sell" rum cakes on the web.

Frank is correct that a company that already sells rum cakes can use the domain to great benefit. I don't see any great affiliate marketing chances with Rum Cakes.

I have been wrong before if Frank is able to do more than just a PPC website with the domain, it will be really great to see him do that.

Frank has some of the best 1st tier domains and it would be great to see him develop the domains.

1st Tier Domains are like Widget.com, Candy.com, Toys.com, Money.com, Sales.com etc.

It goes back to what I have said many times, a Domain with PPC is only worth some X times revenue.

A single domain developed into a website is worth MILLIONS, and sometimes BILLIONS. YouTube.com and many others have been purchased for see www.crunchbase.com for the MANY purchases of stupid domains for tens of millions of $$.

DPReview.com was purchased for $5 million+ from amazon. What a crappy domain. OH what traffic, and oh what TYPE-IN he had, and SEO he had.

No matter how many domains I own (or anyone), it will never worth more than a good programmer, manager/leader and decent idea and content.

sasquatch, You're stoned.
Since you came here in December of '03, maybe you should have "hoarded" domains as well. You could be "rich," too.

Sounds like sour grapes.

Every time I see the sales of names in DNJournal, it reconfirmes in my mind, domaining will never be dead.

Also, if anyone wants to see REAL money, check out:
http://www.pehub.com/article/news_index.php

This is impressive for a stupid domain. Now can the founders make something of the money or waste it? Yes they should buy keyword domains, to drive traffic vs. Buying Google or Yahoo temporary. They need to do BOTH, buy keyword domains and buy traffic via, Google. IMO

Deca.TV
Deca.tv Raises $5 Million

09-28-2007


DECA, a Santa Monica, Calif.-based digital entertainment studio, has raised $5 million in Series A funding. Mayfield Fund led the deal, and was joined by General Catalyst Partners and Atomico Investme

 

[nameadvertising.com]

Sasquatch is right on on most points. The so called big time domainers are only in the game to hype their portfolio. The only portfolio they are now looking to acquire are from distressed (need money now) domainers.

I have done extensive research last year on names sold data on DNJournal. A singular name ( say - rental car.com) sold for $3k still had rentalcars.com available. As an experiment, I registered a few and approached the new buyer for a flat $100. No response.

I don't question the validity of most sales. But some big time sales data are just plain fishy to me. The prevailing mindset in the domaining business is that if you have filthy cash at your disposal, then you are an automatic expert at determining domain name values. If you have a newbie tag on your domainer profile, you are a no good idiot who just landed from mars. Not so!

You can see how members respond to other members based on their forum status. Gees, there are newbies who own 10,000 plus names in their portfolio.

The worst case scenario is to merit a domain name's value based on traffic and revenue multiples alone. These people who show interest in buying large portfolios feed on this lie. Yes, traffic and revenue is a plus. But what has a generic domain to do with business success. It is negligible. In fact a good percentage of successful businesses online depend on their branded image. Go figure!

In the domaining business, one who screams most is deemed an expert. One can only learn from Yun Ye, who quietly amassed his fortune based on his own rules, metrics and expertise.

The fact is, all of these guys - Marchex, Ireit or whoever the hell they are - are not interested in your portfolio as much as they are interested in inflating their own portfolio in the eyes of Madison Avenue and corporate America. Can you not see what these domaining events are all about?

After spending 164 million in acquiring Yun Ye's portfolio, Marchex only made $150,000 plus in profits. You think anyone can do better with that kind of money in another form of business?

What I hate about these success touting big mouths is that they never mention their domaining failures. They will never mention about those duds in their portfolio making just $1 per month or nothing at all.

I wonder about those folks who paid $50,000 for some name now making $50 in parking revenues. It is not as simple as to say it is a premium name. That is pure rhetoric. A premium name will generate profits. Unless one proves it with hard core data, then it is pure marketing to me.

If Rumcakes.com was a parked page, how much would it earn per month? Give me a number. It would still need marketing and additional branding not to say a great product and customer service to become successful. You can still do this with Marysrumcakes.com - And most corporate brands do just that!

There is no doubt in the value of generic domains. But, I don't trust reported sales. And I don't agree with the prevailing benchmarks in the industry to value names based on revenues. I will reserve that for pure typos which has no inherent business model other then a parked page.

Become the "EXPERT" and let no one tell you how valuable your own names are. But that is another story....

Before you tout on the importance of a generic name, do some real hard investigation and see sales data of all rum cake sellers on the web and see why rumcakes.com is still a parked page.

Barnes and Nobles owns books.com and will never in this lifetime have an edge over Amazon.

 

[Seraphim]

For the most part, pure domaining is dead. And I mean domaining with the intention of becoming rich.

Not so at all. This year alone I nearly grabbed a name that could have been flipped for a 6 figure profit the next day. And by "almost", I mean I had a two month window to buy in, but made the mistake of trying to get the name too low, and it was sold to Microsoft.

There are still large gold nuggets out in those hills, whether it be in fresh regs, development opportunities, or aftermarket flips. Stay optimistic, and find a profitable niche you can compete in, there are plenty out there. Building a long term investment portfolio is possible, and I think we'll see a few domain empires rise out of these last couple of years.

Let the big leaguers remain cardboard, go after your peice of the rum cake.

 

[Biggie]

It's easy to say that those who who challenge the big guy's gospel must be bitter at their success. And that's precisely what the "big guys" would like you to believe. No man, maybe we don't give a damn how much "Franks' " make, but we do give a damn in what they say, and what they do.

While the due has to be given for their "sticking with my approach" approach, and for their simple insight, it still doesn't change the fact that for the most part they are now engaged in fluffing their own portfolios. On Frank's example, he isn't sharing his "insight" for you and me (only a clueless idiot thinks that), instead what is he doing is he is courting potential suitors, he is sending a mating call to prospective buyers of his portfolio, he's trying to open their eyes and have them to see the world from his rosy-colored perspective. His is a corporate song, and not an everyman song. And it is easy for him to share his "insight" now that his "cover is blown" and the "cat is out of the bag" after amassing 300,000+ names. Why wasn't he sharing his "insight" back in '01? There's nothing too spectacular about the success of guys like Frank who started in domains with fat lines of cash. When he started in domains he had access to more cash than 99.9% of the people of this world will ever see (let alone earn) in their lives. In other words he was already rich. And speaking of insight, what he is preaching to the uninitiated masses is not terribly insightful either. Yes, of course you can make an online business out of RumCakes.com, and many such other examples, but that's like saying you will be in good physical shape, if you eat a little, healthy and you excercise a lot - yet the America is full of obese mother****ers who are licking deep fried ice-creams like there's no manana. Conventional wisdom for the world that behaves anything but. If anything, for most small timers and beginners Franks is very dangerous ideologue, especially in the miniscule moments when he repeatedly tells you that you can make a living from domains even if you start with 5k now (while at the same time steadfastedly refusing to buy any domains from you even when they are steals).

Even more so with Elequa, it's easy to "change the face of the Internet landscape" (what a load of meanigless fluff that term is) when you have access to your family's unlimited amounts of money.

Same for many others.

And who is that Sahar dude? Just dropped from the Mars, and his mug now everywhere? An authority all of a sudden?

And did you notice that majority of DN Journal sales happen at Monte's company (just like in the times when DNJournals reported unverifiable sales, and I have objected to that), at Snapnames, at BuyDomains. And did you notice STILL how many domains that were claimed to be sold for megabux, still languish at the exact same pre-sales landing pages even months after the sale. Hmmmm...

For the most part, pure domaining is dead. And I mean domaining with the intention of becoming rich. The fat roles and plum assignments have already been given/taken/stolen, and what is left is the circle jerk of fat cats (most of whom were already rich prior to switching to the benefits of this media vanity business, and easy availability of thirld world mail-order brides) and who are mutually stroking each others' members', while the random hornies watch from outside salivating at the prospects of joining in.

And no amounts of Dn Journal (and other printed "industry trades") "industry coverage" will change that fact. The sooner you realize that fact, the better will be for you lil' fella.

i know you ain't bitter, and neither am i, but....


seems like "cognitive dissonance" to me



on one hand...

"don't believe their hype"


on the other...

"promote them by inference"


one can choose to ignore the daily promo's of sales and predictabilities, but still use them when valuing your own portfolio by comparision.

being one of the "big boys" is a dream of most, which drives the aspirations of many.
those that like to quote what they said and were they where, do so as a means to an end.
that end, is their perogative....as long as it is not deceptive in nature.

if someone likes to "hold the jock straps" of the "big boys" then let em hold on.

do you wanna be a "celebrity domainer" too?


start a news site and focus on the little guy who came up on his own, with no "silver spoon" to suck on while nurturing their way thru this madness.

spotlight on the guy who bought a hand reg for $6.95 and flipped it for $75.00 in two weeks.

then when you blow-up from all this reporting, hear-say and blah-blah that you'll be posting on your site....someone may start threads talking about you!

the solution...imo

 

[sasquatch]

spotlight on the guy who bought a hand reg for $6.95 and flipped it for $75.00 in two weeks.

Why would anyone spotlight that? Nobody can make a yearly living doing such small ratio of profits. Not unless they live in Cuba or Cambodia, places where average yearly salary is $300. Try making 40k a year by profiting $70 a pop "every two weeks". And even if someone does it, or if certain few people can do such things, it doesn't mean any arriving bozo with five grand to "invest" could. Same goes for the ocassional deeper flips.

Stay optimistic, and find a profitable niche you can compete in, there are plenty out there.

I'm just providing the other (critical) voice, something that is by far and large omitted from glossy press releases of these guys. For every cheerleading post Frank makes on his blog, he should put a disclaimer in big, bold letters underneath his post. And you know what, in every regulated industry he would have to do so, but not in this Wild West scenario. So he is free to fluffing it and milk the situation for all he can. And he does.

Him and his idylic representations, and photos of (his) life in the Caribbean island designed to appeal to another bunch of money-raising dudes (probably existing outthere as we sopeak) who are trying to become another Marhchex.

 

[SamBam]

There are huge opportunities right in front of everybody's noses right now. You could start with under 10K and you might be able to live forever off of it (if you studied for a few months first and read everything you could).

You either know what is going on or not, and you either turn a profit very soon after starting...or not. If the answer is "Not" then you will likely gravitate to the alternate extentions and totally miss the boat.

All you have to do is look at each years sales at Dn Journal. If you look at every sale listed over 10K in the last few years only a handful look like good deals for the sellers. They pretty much look like steals for the buyers.

What makes this business so good is that most morons think it is too late to get started, when the reality is that if you told someone on the street what you did for a living they would look at you in a condescending way...because they have no clue what is going on.

For practical purposes, the Internet is only 12 years old, and you really didn't have to be online until 2000 or 2001 to function in the world. PPC is only a few years old.

Is is only the second inning, and this game has enough innings to last all of our lifetimes.

You can change your life with one name and an investment of a few thousand dollars. Most people take the easy way out and ask for people to send them names making $100 per month and they will pay them $2,500.

That is the lowest level of creativity, but some people go for that nonsense. At some point you have to show a little bit off ingenuity and pull of a good buy. The more money you can spend the bigger score you can make. Not many people have $500,000, but that the sales price for Macau.com and just about a year later it sold again for millions I believe.

There are scores of names that have sold for $10,000 and less in the last few years that would grab $100,000 and above right now.

The bottom line is that the world has given us a layup, and most people are crying foul instead of slamming the ball through the hoop and getting the job done.

Those who continue to miss layups should probably quit and pick another sport. I mean, the ball is in your hands, and the hoop is right in front of you...who cares what anyone else is doing (unless they are involved with touting fraudulent sales, like many of the alternate extention fanatics).

Hype is OK, but lies are not. Dunk the ball and get the money. If someone dunks it more than you than let them do it.

 

[Salient]

Assuming everything Sasquatch said is true, then good for Frank and company.


If I were in the same position, I'd be whoring myself and promoting domains like it's nobodys business. And if I got to the top because of a big bankroll when starting up, even better. I might even have to shoulder a few people on my way up. That's business.


However, I feel most of the dialogue coming from well-known domainers is centered around creating a space in which the status quo doesnt see domaining as synonomous with cybersquatting and other nefarious activities. One could then argue the "Frank's" of the world do this for the betterment of their own interests, not for the domain industry on the whole...


Personally, I'm ok with it.

 

[Theo]

Great words of "wisdom" coming from a non-existent beast. Sour grapes, anyone?

 

[sasquatch]

I feel most of the dialogue coming from well-known domainers

Well, I'd say it's not a dialogue what they engage in, but it's rather a monologue. Try engaging say Rick Schwartz into any sort of dialogue that doesn't purport his views 100% and he will instantly flip into a nasty ass who will do anything in his power to lessen your message, and discredit you. What an ugly personality that guy has.

I actually in many ways respect Frank and his work (though he is a lousy media manager. And for the self-referred "fast learner" he is rather "pedestrian" in many important aspects), but I do think that he is suffering from Rick Schwarts syndrom as well. I remember a little while ago before I knew more about him, whenever was any mention of Frank - Dn Journal's Duke was always quick to take the opportunity to mention how great of a guy Frank is, blah, blah.

But if you read Frank's blog, he is quick to trade personal barbs with anyone offering a stronger dissenting point; he openly disses some of the people (former "friends") who "made it" in the mainstream media (that gypsy domainer-turned-Sillicon Valley blogger), he calls people "idiots" left and right (sometimes for no other reason then just for theirs' registering .eu names). His words are often spiked with something that approaches bitterness (and you thought I was bitter) as well as "smarter-than-you "feeling". Sheesh, and that is supposed to be a "great guy"?

Yes of course he will slap your Grassroot logo on his ppc landers, and yes, he will pay for his "fat cat club" strippers, just don't contrast his gospel. Oh no.

 

[DomainsInc]

I agree with some part of the original post. The big guys don't care about you and don't care if you succeed. I've said this time and time again when i see newbies with diamonds in their eyes. Chances are you won't succeed. Chances are you will never be able to make a living off domains alone unless you have access to tens of thousands of dollars upon start up. Even then, make the wrong decisions and you're screwed. You'll never see DNjournal profile someone who went broke investing their last dime into domains hoping to "make it". Those guys selling domains for 50 bucks a pop, you're wasting your time. The time spent could probably make you more elsewhere doing what you know. Domaining dead? Nah, i don't think so but are there a lot of lemmings leaping off cliffs in the domaining world..Hell yeah.

 

[Theo]

Sasq, decide whether you're in this game to make money or to bash personalities. If it's the latter, I suggest you start a media company with the sole purpose of building your own persona. Only problem is, you will then have to step out from behind the anonymity that you so comfortably enjoy at your current swamp.