This will be long winded and make several points so it will be broken up into sections.
After going back and reading this thread, the google thread you have in another section, and our pm conversation, there will be a difference in the end on how we see this...we have different experiences concerning this... I wouldn't put my ranking hopes (google) in a domain name (actually, thats all it would be - ranking hopes :laugh: ) and i havent seen any data up to this point that would make me change my mind, so in the end we probably will agree to disagree.
OK, my goal is to play on your field so here are a few assumptions I have made based on your posts in this thread.
A)
I'll assume that based on your statement about the relative weakness of msn that we can 1) disregard the hockey posting above and 2) stick with google for this conversation.
B ) I'll assume that you are comfortable using data from the overture results instead of another source like wordtracker
1) you describe people who go to a search engine and type in the domain as idiots (idiots is a little harsh but i agree with the premise). of course, as you pointed out, this is done by MILLIONS every week.
2) You say search phrases are relevent (like its a boy) but then you show run ons...lotteryresults - google is clearly keying on the run on, lotteryresults is not a word and it is not a phrase. it is two words joined, that , according to your own statement, result in an insignificant number of searches each month (see your comment on page 1 of this thread about itsaboy.com 100 results).
A search phrase IS NOT the same as two or more words running together. I'm sure you will agree with that. And a domain name IS two or more words running together (for this discussion anyway and leaving out the hyphenated argument for now).
ex: Overture results for lotteryresults.us
lotteryresults.us = No suggestions for lotteryresults.us.
lotteryresults = 85103 - this is clearly overtures breakdown of the words. they show the results as "lottery results" two words - why? because people dont tend to input runons into a search engine - they either use phrases (two or more words) or they type in a domain name they KNOW like yahoo.com
. you and i know this does not represent the actual number of searches for "lotteryresults"
lottery results = exactly the same as above
Now Google -
lotteryresults.us - 3 returns - obviously pages from your site
lotteryresults - Results 1 - 10 of about 1,950 - top of the page says - Did you mean: lottery results? (two words) - you are in spot 3 here.
google knows the searcher screwed up so they try to help.
lottery results - Results 1 - 10 of about 854,000 - went through 15 pages and couldnt find lotteryresults.us - might have missed it but dont think so. will people who go to google looking for lottery results find you? doesnt look like it to me. - maybe you could dig into your log files and share some phrases that people are using to find that site.
Aahh! A search phrase is not the same as a set of words running together.
So what are people doing? They are using search phrases - not runon words. what are domain names? runon words.
My assertion that running words together (a domain name for example) is not relevent to search TERMS/PHRASES is clearly accurate.
IF people searched by domain name only or by using runon words (like your lottery example).... a domain name would be a good indicator of potential search traffic. BUT they dont, which should remove most arguments about domain names being relevent to potential search traffic based on overture or google results.
My point is that people dont search in a format that would be required in order to take advantage of anything but "idiot" (your word) searches.
So, I think we agree that "its a boy" represents a relevent search. but itsaboy does not. and since a domain name is itsaboy..well...see google lottery results above.
I'm exhausted -
lets move on -
I cringe at providing any data about any of my sites. this is a replicatable business and i dont need any more competition. so i've selected a site that meets MOST of the thoughts that I laid out to you earlier - poor google pr - link pop - etc. and it is a site that I will sell off when the right buyer comes around so there is not much for me to lose with this one. This site has been sitting relatively untouched for almost 2 years now (?). small additions and subtractions to affiliate programs and such is all that has been done to it - no attempts for positioning. the ranks achieved have been consistent but the ranks below are all a few positions lower than they were at one time which is to be expected when you arent paying attention to new competition.
http://ncautomall.com -
an example of a few google spots:
auto payment calculators - position 2
nissan dealerships - position 8
chevy dealerships - position 4
mazda dealerships - position 7
mitsubishi dealerships - position 5
interestingly, many of the sites at the top in these categories have hyphenated domain names. and at the same time, google appears to treat hyphenated search requests different than an unhyphenated one. I tend to hyphenate sub pages and believe that it is far easier to achieve a good rank by doing just that. not sure of the actual relevency related to hyphenated sub pages and hyphenated domains. it seems they would be the same but i just have never been able to show it conclusively from my experience.
maybe thats something you and i could take a look at bid if you're interested.
with a little bit of attention the rankings would be much better..like i said...from a positioning standpoint its just been sitting there for some time now.
the auto business has been off since december... but when it is up, some of the few phrases above get over 10k searches per month. is that a huge number? by itself no - but put them together and it is good.
would you rather be a very high ranking niche on terms people are using to find "stuff" or a low ranking site on a search term that gets 1,000,000 returns? i know where i want to be.
thats about as much tipping of the hand that i'm willing to do.
thanks bid and others. this has been an interesting conversation.
hopefully some of the views presented are helpful to somebody - i'd hate to think we did all this typing for our own gratification - especially as boring as it is -
i've said all i have to say on this subject and have a busy day so unless there is some compelling (or silly
) argument that draws me back i wont be posting on this one again.
