Promotional Product Business: What's In A Name?

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DaddyHalbucks

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mole said:
Tell that to Sony Walkman.

Real choice means less dependency on .COM, in the past there was really no choice;

Now, what say you if we substitute lust.com with lust.xxx? Like never before in Internet history, we are now at the watershed and crossroads of alternative addressing choices;

.EU
.MOBI
.TRAVEL
.JOBS
.XXX

Every single one of the above are qualified extensions (and covering massive industries and continents) - which means not every tom, dick and his dog will be able to register them like the aging and squatter ravaged .COM namespace.

Once the search engines start attributing increased relevance weightages to these extensions, like they already do for ccTLD local search, lets see how developers react to that.

It doesn't matter whether anyone is right or wrong, but let us not put our heads in the sand and act stupid to growing trends.



1. Sony Walkman --again, a few exceptions don't disprove a general rule.

2. The above new extensions you cite haven't been proven yet. The fact that there are so many choices (AKA: competition, or even confusion) may devalue some or all of them.
 

mole

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DaddyHalbucks said:
The fact that there are so many choices (AKA: competition, or even confusion) may devalue some or all of them.

Your fundamental premise here is that choice can only confuse the consumer or business.

If new extensions lead to improved relevance of search results, the benefit it creates will, over time, increase the value of extensions that do this. Choice then becomes a good thing to have.

Big difference.

The only thing this devalues is dependence on .COM as the only thing to have.
 

DaddyHalbucks

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mole said:
Your fundamental premise here is that choice can only confuse the consumer or business.

If new extensions lead to improved relevance of search results, the benefit it creates will, over time, increase the value of extensions that do this. Choice then becomes a good thing to have.

Big difference.

The only thing this devalues is dependence on .COM as the only thing to have.


The many extensions do confuse people.

Consumers know .COM

That is one reason why American business relies on .COM.
 

mole

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DaddyHalbucks said:
That is one reason why American business relies on .COM.

Perhaps, the point of contention here is the reliance on that one extension can only drop in the coming years as web addressing matures, as SMEs develop their web presence with names that don't look like crap on the left of the dot because "everything else has been take" by squatters.
 

Rubber Duck

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mole said:
Perhaps, the point of contention here is the reliance on that one extension can only drop in the coming years as web addressing matures, as SMEs develop their web presence with names that don't look like crap on the left of the dot because "everything else has been take" by squatters.

Well, I have to say I prefer the term "speculator", but then again it does rather depend what you have bought, but DRP is there to decide whether it is "squatting" or not.

As I have stated before dot com is a brand and like all brands that implies quality, however, the more crappy dot coms that are registered, the less obvious that cachet is going to be. At the end of the day if the brand doesn't exude quality it will be devalued.

At the moment a lot of speculators are buying dot com just as brand snobs go to Harrods for the carrier bags. That, however, is not going sustain a price differential.

Yes, I think Mole is correct regarding changes in value, depending on the way domains are used, however, dot Pro was a prime example of a new registry with high standards before approval, but look where we are now, individuals with huge portfolios of prime second level names. A scam all but in name.

The truth is at some point dot com will have serious peers and that will limit the exponential growth in prices that have been witnessed. At the same time the market can only sustain so many registeries, and some of the existing ones already look pretty shaky.

Dot com speculators have good reason to fear the wider acceptance of other registeries, as it will undoubtedly affect the value of their domains. The real damage, however, will, as mole says, be the longer-term erosion of Type-in traffic and this will not be anything to do with emerging registeries, but an evolution in the way that search is done.

For the vast majority of the 40million odd dot coms registered all this will have no impact, as most of them are worth little more than Reg Fee.

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon
 

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DaddyHalbucks said:
The many extensions do confuse people.

Consumers know .COM

That is one reason why American business relies on .COM.

Confusion, is the natural state for many. I nearly hit an old man backing out onto the road yesterday, who was being directed by his daughter. He obvioulsy hadn't explained to her she was supposed to be watching the road rather than him. Still she kept waving him on!

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon
 

mole

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Back in 2000, ICANN was under a lot of political pressure from .COM lobbyists not to introduce anything too radical to upset the economics of the .COM monopoly. Thus, silly names like .PRO and .NAME. .XXX and .WEB was rejected then for obvious reasons...

It seems this time, the Pandora's box is being thrown wide open. ICANN has learnt well to address the major money spinning industries this time round;

.travel will empower the broad spectrum of the travel industry – from the smallest to the largest players – to better promote their products and services within a universal framework on the Internet.

https://www.nic.travel

Also notice the logic of their directory.travel, that claims to be better than search engines...

One may say this is just another one of those hypish parabole again. I doubt it, the dependence on search engines for navigation is too heavy today to ignore extensions that have an in-built advantage in climbing the ranks on specific search terms.

Mobile, Travel, Jobs, Sex, the whole bloody European continent, the sea of change is the color red and a lot more toxic for slow moving thinkers today.
 

Rubber Duck

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mole said:
Mobile, Travel, Jobs, Sex, the whole bloody European continent, the sea of change is the color red and a lot more toxic for slow moving thinkers today.

It is human nature to keep ploughing the same furrow once a winning formula has been established. This is why all markets go through a perennial cycle of Boom, then Bubble, then Bust. Domains are no different. Very few change buses until the wheels drop off.

Dave Wrixon
 

mole

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dwrixon said:
It is human nature to keep plough the same furrow once a winning formula has been established. This is why all markets go through a perennial cycle of Boom, then Bubble, then Bust. Domains are no different. Very few change buses until the wheels drop off.

As a city expands its population, new buses are needed, new mass transit systems are built. The Internet is no different, as it grows it organically generates new navigation conduits, often far superior in design and architecture and management, to those rusting old buses built in the mid-eighties.
 

gpmgroup

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mole said:
Back in 2000, ICANN was under a lot of political pressure from .COM lobbyists not to introduce anything too radical to upset the economics of the .COM monopoly. Thus, silly names like .PRO and .NAME. .XXX and .WEB was rejected then for obvious reasons...

It seems this time, the Pandora's box is being thrown wide open. ICANN has learnt well to address the major money spinning industries this time round;



https://www.nic.travel

Also notice the logic of their directory.travel, that claims to be better than search engines...

One may say this is just another one of those hypish parabole again. I doubt it, the dependence on search engines for navigation is too heavy today to ignore extensions that have an in-built advantage in climbing the ranks on specific search terms.

Mobile, Travel, Jobs, Sex, the whole bloody European continent, the sea of change is the color red and a lot more toxic for slow moving thinkers today.

Have you actually tried the .travel directory?

Take an area say Destinations / Western Europe (20 Entries)

travelsearch.travel --> travel-match.com specialising in SEO for travel sites
bbs.travel --> bbs-reisen.de
bbs.travel --> bbs-reisen.de
Skicollection.travel --> skicollection.co.uk
peakretreats.travel --> peakretreats.co.uk
hillbarret.travel --> hillbarret.com
justhoneymoons.travel -->memorabletravels.com
euroflyvactions.travel --> euroflyvacations.travel (En Circa Holding Page)
visitspaintours.travel --> visitspaintours.travel
shtours.travel --> ptraveler.travel -> wand.com
ancestor.travel –-> ancestor.travel (En Circa Holding Page)
mMemorableTravels.Travel --> memorabletravels.com
madeiratourism.travel --> madeiratourism.com (Via Wand)
magicalescapes.travel --> magicalescapes.travel (En Circa Holding Page)
itwg.travel --> itwg.com
Outholidayhomes.travel --> outvak.nl
homerictours.travel --> homerictours.com
kuonitravelholding.travel --> kuoni.com
kuonitravelholding.travel --> kuoni.com
Hilton International Abu Dhabi --> tralliance.info
 

mole

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These are the early settlers staking out their place on this vertical market. No point having to redo their website, all their brochures and contact details, etc - transition cannot be done overnight for established businesses, it will have to root over time. And being specially favored by search engines will be one BIG incentive to finally make .TRAVEL their primary URL.
 

gpmgroup

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mole said:
These are the early settlers staking out their place on this vertical market. No point having to redo their website, all their brochures and contact details, etc - transition cannot be done overnight for established businesses, it will have to root over time. And being specially favored by search engines will be one BIG incentive to finally make .TRAVEL their primary URL.

Well I hope I'm wrong but I can not see .travel taking off, it seems to involve all the extra costs you have identifed "redo[ing] their website, all their brochures and contact details, etc" but very little advantage.

Do you honestly believe the .travel directory is going compete with Google? as source of referrals to websites?

Is a gTLD / DNS space the right place to be establishing these "mini" monopolies? Sure ICANN benefits and the Registry may benefit but do Companies and End Users?

Couldn't this all have just been done a lot more effectively through a .com directory or database?

Wand.com have such a database :-O
https://www.wand.com/travel/english/search/queries/t_product.asp?packageid=9024&mfgcode=50194661
https://www.wand.com/travel/english/search/queries/t_product.asp?packageid=9011&mfgcode=50194455
 

mole

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gpmgroup said:
Do you honestly believe the .travel directory is going compete with Google? as source of referrals to websites?

I think the .travel directory can be done better, still a little clunky at this stage, not sure if Wand is the way to go for this.
 

Rubber Duck

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gpmgroup said:
...Is a gTLD / DNS space the right place to be establishing these "mini" monopolies? Sure ICANN benefits and the Registry may benefit but do Companies and End Users?

Couldn't this all have just been done a lot more effectively through a .com directory or database? ...

The whole point is that is registrants of these various new domain options that are competing for commercial advantages. It is Darwinian process. The question is to what extent is dot com going to become a dinosaur that looses its niche to such new upstarts.

If the owners and developers of these new domains are successful in luring business away from dot com, is our place our indeed anyone elses to pass judgement on whether it is right or wrong? It is just part of the evolution of the internet!

Statistically, however, most new species become extinct very quickly and that is another possilbe scenario.

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon
 

DaddyHalbucks

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mole said:
Perhaps, the point of contention here is the reliance on that one extension can only drop in the coming years as web addressing matures, as SMEs develop their web presence with names that don't look like crap on the left of the dot because "everything else has been take" by squatters.


Why is looking like crap on the right side any better?

Normally when something is scarce the price only rises, remember Econ. 101, supply and demand? That's what drives .COM pricing.
 

Rubber Duck

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DaddyHalbucks said:
Why is looking like crap on the right side any better?

Normally when something is scarce the price only rises, remember Econ. 101, supply and demand? That's what drives .COM pricing.

Well beauty is in the eye of the beholder and you are clearly smitten with dot com. Mind you I shouldn't be so smug as most of my IDN are also dot coms.

The debate will soon shift focus to how dot com and dot net and indeed other extensions will be represented at the first level in other character sets. This has to happen if dot com is going to become a truely global brand. Note that not even Coca Cola is not represented in Latin Characters in much of the world.

The value of dot com is not so much what it looks like, so much as what it represents. At the moment, it states that you are an exclusive club, but the question is what makes it so exclusive and how can it maintain that prestige.
From a commercial end users perspective, the bottom line is the bottom line. If dot coms continue to be perceived as what is required to run a successful commercial site, then then they will be in demand. If something else proves it can do a better job, then that demand will quickly wane.

Verisign is actually much better positioned to continue its registries' expansion than most other registry managers, as it has done much more development work on IDN, will enable it to exploit a much wider market place. There is likely to be massive expansion of the registry, although little of it will be in ASCII domains. The greatly increasing numbers of registrations on dot com will, however, go a long way to maintaining the belief that it is somehow superior to the other extension, at least for the medium term.

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon
 

gpmgroup

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dwrixon said:
If the owners and developers of these new domains are successful in luring business away from dot com, is our place our indeed anyone elses to pass judgement on whether it is right or wrong? It is just part of the evolution of the internet!
Best Regards
Dave Wrixon

If I own a brand the cost of doing business is increased if I have to defensively register a myriad of TLDs.

While ICANN is playing around with small niche gTLDs most people are not overly concerned as it doesn't affect them. However as the niches get bigger things become more complicated .xxx and .asia for example even governments start to take notice.

Every new gTLD ICANN approves shifts the balance of power away from the ccTLDs.

As part of the evolution process new TLDs need to time to reach a critical mass and become self sufficient otherwise they will simply wither away. These new gTLDs need nurturing and helping to develop, just allowing them to be created is not sufficient.

Ironically rather than creating more competition ICANN will simply reinforce the dominance of .com as the must have TLD.
 

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gpmgroup said:
If I own a brand the cost of doing business is increased if I have to defensively register a myriad of TLDs.

While ICANN is playing around with small niche gTLDs most people are not overly concerned as it doesn't affect them. However as the niches get bigger things become more complicated .xxx and .asia for example even governments start to take notice.

Every new gTLD ICANN approves shifts the balance of power away from the ccTLDs.

As part of the evolution process new TLDs need to time to reach a critical mass and become self sufficient otherwise they will simply wither away. These new gTLDs need nurturing and helping to develop, just allowing them to be created is not sufficient.

Ironically rather than creating more competition ICANN will simply reinforce the dominance of .com as the must have TLD.

Well of course there are checks and balances in the system. If running a niche registry proves to be a commercial liability investors will stop investing. You are of course correct in your assumption that there is a limit to how many registeries can be commercially viable. As yet though we have not seen any go under, although expectations of the their success has often proved fanciful.

At the end end of the day if a registry goes down then you stand to loose the remainder of your annual registration. If you have booked out 100year in advance of course you would probably loose the lot. You will of course be able to register another domain elsewhere and it is likely that another registry would rescue the situation in the short-term. Longer term the investment in new registries would just dry up. Nobody will give a damn about the speculator who has paid a premium for something that has hit the dirt. That is speculation!

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon
 
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