Membership is FREE – with unlimited access to all features, tools, and discussions. Premium accounts get benefits like banner ads and newsletter exposure. ✅ Signature links are now free for all. 🚫 No AI-generated (LLM) posts allowed. Share your own thoughts and experience — accounts may be terminated for violations.

Refused to sign declaration

Status
Not open for further replies.

domaingenius

Level 8
Legacy Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2006
Messages
1,281
Reaction score
10
I refused to sign the declaration on a WIPO response absolving WIPO
of any or all responsibility and they still accepted the response. Seems
it is that clause which they know is not compatible with the UDRP.
Anyway is going to Court now so shall see.

DG
 

jberryhill

Philadelphia Lawyer
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2002
Messages
2,588
Reaction score
23
So, did you get your decision yet?
 

domaingenius

Level 8
Legacy Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2006
Messages
1,281
Reaction score
10
So, did you get your decision yet?

John, yes week ago but I honestly have'nt read it as dont like to read
the type of crap they write. Lawyer has a copy and matter is definately
going to Court, in Germany.

DG
 

jberryhill

Philadelphia Lawyer
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2002
Messages
2,588
Reaction score
23
I meant the UDRP decision - it has been posted, yes?

I thought you had already filed your lawsuit in Germany, and that the lawyer agreed to do this for you on a contingent basis.

In fact, wasn't your UDRP response simply going to be a copy of the German civil complaint?

John, yes week ago but I honestly have'nt read it as dont like to read
the type of crap they write. Lawyer has a copy and matter is definately
going to Court, in Germany.


DG


To recap from last month:

The documents have been properly paid for and sealed by
the Court with the Official Seal/Stamp and the document
refers to the domain that is subject to the UDRP. Those
sealed documents from the Court have been served
on all parties including the Registrar themselves.


:?::?:
 

domaingenius

Level 8
Legacy Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2006
Messages
1,281
Reaction score
10
I meant the UDRP decision - it has been posted, yes?

I thought you had already filed your lawsuit in Germany, and that the lawyer agreed to do this for you on a contingent basis.

In fact, wasn't your UDRP response simply going to be a copy of the German civil complaint?




To recap from last month:




:?::?:


John


I know you meant UDRP decision. I did receive email copy,as did lawyer
in Germany. The civil claim was served before the decision was made
but the panelist said that he decided to go ahead. As I say I have not
read the decision but lawyer has.

Yes claim was filed in Germany and has been served but that is as
far as it has gone.

With regard to the other WIPO decision, which I put across your desk and
posted on here about. I applied for a TM in UK on basis of my class
35 use. I noticed that the Complainant has applied for TM in Europe,
Yesterday I received notice of their objection to my trademark. Since
my use was earlier than their use ,for sure, I therefore can now use
their contentions and mirror those in reverse and object to their
European trademark application. i.e. they have contended my use
for class 35 clashes with their class 35 application. Since they allege
that then also that works in reverse. Once that is out of way then
I will pursue the domain again.

DG
 

jberryhill

Philadelphia Lawyer
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2002
Messages
2,588
Reaction score
23
I know you meant UDRP decision. I did receive email copy,as did lawyer
in Germany. The civil claim was served before the decision was made
but the panelist said that he decided to go ahead. As I say I have not
read the decision but lawyer has.

Oh, okay... it wasn't clear what you meant by "proceed", since you had previously started the DE proceeding.

The civil claim was served before the decision was made
but the panelist said that he decided to go ahead.

No surprise there. You should again notify the registrar and confirm that the registrar will maintain the domain lock, though.
 

domaingenius

Level 8
Legacy Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2006
Messages
1,281
Reaction score
10
Oh, okay... it wasn't clear what you meant by "proceed", since you had previously started the DE proceeding.



No surprise there. You should again notify the registrar and confirm that the registrar will maintain the domain lock, though.

Yes good idea, I have just asked lawyer to do that immediately.

DG
 

jberryhill

Philadelphia Lawyer
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2002
Messages
2,588
Reaction score
23
Yes good idea, I have just asked lawyer to do that immediately.

DG


Well if you read the decision, the panel suggested you do that.

Not reading information relevant to your business is not a good idea. Acting on the basis of emotional impulses - "that stuff just bothers me" - is a poor long term strategy.

The panelist reminded you to notify the registrar:

Second, the Policy contemplates situations under which a Panel decision may be implemented even after a Court action has been filed, including if the Court action is later dismissed or if Respondent fails to provide a file-stamped copy of the complaint to the Registrar within ten days. Policy, paragraph 4(k).

Now, if you had read the decision, which you've had for several days, you wouldn't be here several days after the fact, gathering it was a "good idea" to do what the decision expressly reminded you to do.

Unsurprisingly, the panelist said pretty much what I had predicted in connection with filing a TM application after there was reason to believe there would be a dispute:

Respondent acquired this domain name on November 16, 2008, just ten days after Complainant issued a press release announcing that it was rebranding itself as ESSQUE HOTELS. One day later, Complainant received an emailed offering to sell the Domain Name. In light of this chronology, the Panel infers that Respondent sought to acquire this Domain Name because of the value it would have to Complainant and then, either using the alias or working with Mr. Rumaiji, caused an offer to be communicated to Complainant to sell the Domain Name for $4,750, a sum that exceeds the price Respondent paid for the Domain Name. That Mr. Rumaiji is linked to Respondent through the domain name <blastdoors.co.uk> is persuasive proof that Respondent was behind this offer.

All of Respondent’s efforts since the Complainant’s rejection of that offer – including the posting of a simple webpage that purports to sell electronics, the filing of a UK trademark application, and the Respondent’s offer to purchase Complainant’s domain name <essque.net> – appear to have been designed to create a pretext of trademark rights, but the Panel finds them unpersuasive. Rather than show some legitimate interest in ESSQUE as a Domain Name for an electronics retailer, these steps (along with Respondent’s unsuccessful effort to distance himself from Mr. Rumaiji’s effort to sell the Domain Name) reinforce the Panel’s view that Respondent is a cybersquatter who has concocted a process to try to extract maximum value from Complainant for this Domain Name while masking his cybersquatting conduct.

If this case proceeds to litigation, Complainant may well have an opportunity to test the bona fides of Respondent’s claimed interest. For now, on the record in this proceeding, it appears to the Panel that Respondent’s only interest in this Domain Name was to try to sell it to a trademark owner and not to genuinely run an electronics business. Accordingly, the Panel concludes that Complainant has sustained its burden of proving that Respondent lacks rights or a legitimate interest in the Domain Name.
 

jberryhill

Philadelphia Lawyer
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2002
Messages
2,588
Reaction score
23
But let's get back to the point of this thread, and why WIPO considered your Response.

Seems
it is that clause which they know is not compatible with the UDRP.

Ummm.... no. The decision specifically points out that the indemnification requirement is explicitly stated in the UDRP.

Roll the tape:

By email dated January 28, 2009, the Respondent indicated that he would not agree to be bound by the Supplemental Rules. In particular, Respondent stated:

“I do not wish to accept the Supplementary Rules of WIPO, most notably I do not wish to accept rule 12 by which you seek to absolve WIPO of all legal responsibility. I do not accept that such rules are in compliance with the UDRP nor have I entered a contract that agrees to such rules when I registered the domain name.

I therefore formally ask that you write to me within 5 days and inform me that I do not have to agree to such WIPO rules and that even so WIPO will still consider my response to the complaint as valid. If I do not receive such assurance, or receive no reply at all then I shall be proceeding with litigation that will involve WIPO.”

The Center responded on February 2, 2009. The Center informed Respondent that the Supplemental Rules are applicable in UDRP proceedings because they are incorporated by the UDRP, to which Respondent had agreed in his contract with the Registrar. Moreover, Supplemental Rule 12 mirrors Rule 20 of the UDRP itself, which specifically provides that a Provider (such as WIPO) shall not be liable to a party for any act or omission in connection with any administrative proceeding except in the case of deliberate wrongdoing.

You know... if you are not going to read it, then it seems pretty strange to be making conclusions about what they said, when they said the exact opposite.
 

domaingenius

Level 8
Legacy Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2006
Messages
1,281
Reaction score
10
John

Thanks NOT for posting and indentifying the UDRP and myself. You must have known
I did not want to post it but you ****ing well posted it twat.

DG

Hey but John isnt this what you sent to me and suggested I do;

After a UDRP transfer decision, the registrar has to wait ten days
before transferring the domain name

It would be terrible if, during those ten days, the domain name was used
for spamming (and spamming the complainant's products), malware,
phishing, or other activities that would get the domain name into
filters and blacklists.

That would just be awful.

--
John Berryhill, Ph.d., Esq.
4 West Front Street
Media, PA 19063
(610) 565-5601
(267) 386-8115 fax
[email protected]
 

jberryhill

Philadelphia Lawyer
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2002
Messages
2,588
Reaction score
23
Thanks NOT for posting and indentifying the UDRP and myself.

The set of UDRP decisions issued in the last week, and in which the issues of a German lawsuit and recently filed TM application were raised, is pretty limited.

I had no idea that it was offensive to quote from the decision, since you uniquely identified it in the first place.

Secondly, there are several threads on this forum asking questions like "how do you get a domain name blacklisted", and yes that would be a rotten thing to do.
 

domaingenius

Level 8
Legacy Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2006
Messages
1,281
Reaction score
10
I do not need to spell out to you your indiscretions in making such a posting that
you must have known I did not want explicitly identified because you saw that I
did not post it myself.

DG
 

jberryhill

Philadelphia Lawyer
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2002
Messages
2,588
Reaction score
23
you must have known I did not want explicitly identified because you saw that I
did not post it myself

What you said was "I honestly have'nt read it"

It thus seemed worthwhile to point out that the decision which you had not even read because you "dont like to read the type of crap they write" contradicted your characterization of it, and further included a helpful reminder.
 

marcorandazza

Level 5
Legacy Platinum Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2008
Messages
297
Reaction score
1
I can't believe three things here:

1) That DG actually takes umbrage at this decision - given the facts.
2) That DG is upset that Berryhill posted a public record.
3) That DG would get a decision and not bother to read it.

There is no "indiscretion" here, DG. Yes, Berryhill posting the decision exposes your foolishness and crushes any sympathy anyone might have for your cause. However, he's done nothing remotely wrong. In fact, he's done a public service by posting the decision. Perhaps this will educate others that "blustering a lot about technicalities and form over substance when it comes to legal matters" is not the same as "having legal knowledge."
 

dvdrip

Level 9
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Messages
2,782
Reaction score
24
OK. Let me introduce you to dnforum and google.
It took me 20 seconds to find this case.
 

domaingenius

Level 8
Legacy Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2006
Messages
1,281
Reaction score
10
I take umbrage at the fact that (a) WIPO decisions are not based
on evidence that has been heard from both sides and in many cases
is not true (b) that it is quoted as being "fact" when it is in fact
"assumption" .I am upset that Berryhill posted the case because (a)
I did speak with about the case on the phone and he therefore knew
which case (b) because he must have known that I did not want
it
explicitly disclosed in this thread. As for the decision,
as I say I have not read it and do not want to bother reading
it as have other business afoot. The case is going to Court and
it will be decided there.

"Perhaps this will educate others that "blustering a lot about technicalities and form over substance when it comes to legal matters" is not the same as "having legal knowledge." What do you call "legal knowledge".

DG

I can't believe three things here:

1) That DG actually takes umbrage at this decision - given the facts.
2) That DG is upset that Berryhill posted a public record.
3) That DG would get a decision and not bother to read it.

There is no "indiscretion" here, DG. Yes, Berryhill posting the decision exposes your foolishness and crushes any sympathy anyone might have for your cause. However, he's done nothing remotely wrong. In fact, he's done a public service by posting the decision. Perhaps this will educate others that "blustering a lot about technicalities and form over substance when it comes to legal matters" is not the same as "having legal knowledge."

http://www.circleid.com/posts/jurisdiction_over_domain_names_too_much_law_or_too_little/
 

marcorandazza

Level 5
Legacy Platinum Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2008
Messages
297
Reaction score
1
Look, I enjoy busting John's balls from time to time, but there is no way in hell you're going to get away with trying to question his integrity on this issue. The case is a public record. You gave away enough information about it that a chimpanzee could have found out which case it was. There isn't a shade of impropriety in what John did. Even if he magically knew you didn't want it disclosed, he was under no obligation whatsoever to keep that public information under wraps.

Not reading a decision that you gripe about? Are you kidding? You have "other business afoot"??? You paid a lawyer to take a case to court to challenge the ruling in another case that you haven't even read?

WIPO decisions are not based on evidence that has been heard from both sides and in many cases is not true (b) that it is quoted as being "fact" when it is in fact
"assumption"

How do you know? You haven't even READ the decision? Which, your "other business afoot" aside, you don't need to be a speed reader to read that decision in less than 10 minutes. Give me a break. You're just making yourself look dumber and dumber.

Read the freakin' decision or shut your trap about it.
 

jberryhill

Philadelphia Lawyer
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2002
Messages
2,588
Reaction score
23
I did speak with about the case on the phone and he therefore knew
which case

That is utterly incorrect.

There was a person who spoke with me on the phone some months ago about a different situation entirely, who did not engage me for anything, and whose name I had quite frankly forgotten. I receive many vague inquiries of a general nature and do not record all of the names. The question related to a general issue of procedure, involving no confidential information whatsoever. This one I was able to match up with an email after you had accused me of some kind of propriety.

I found the case under discussion here as a result of a search, which using four relevant words in Google (german lawsuit domain wipo) renders it immediately apparent.

People read this forum to find information that might be relevant to their own situation. You posted a note to the effect that not signing the declaration in a UDRP Response resulted in some tacit recognition by WIPO that it is not part of the UDRP incorporated into domain contracts.

Not only is that wrong information, it was stated in the decision to be wrong information. You are not entitled to mislead people into doing things that, with another panelist, may result in an otherwise valid defense being thrown out. You are not entitled to harm others who might be gulled into believing you. You are not entitled to mis-educate the users of this forum.

Having my memory refreshed, you seriously believe that a fifteen minute telephone conversation about something unrelated to this case back in January renders me thenceforth unable to quote from a published case? Oh, please.

Since you recall it better than I do, just how much of my time did you consume for free, anyway?

WIPO decisions are not based on evidence that has been heard from both sides and in many cases is not true (b) that it is quoted as being "fact" when it is in fact
"assumption"

It is an absolute fact that:

1. You didn't sign the declaration required by the UDRP and UDRP Rules.

2. You asserted here that the WIPO Supplemental Rule on that point was not authorized under the UDRP.

3. You asserted here that WIPO admitted to your conclusion on that point.

No. The Panelist charitably considered your response, and the decision pretty much says that if you want to challenge WIPO in court on it, then you can be their guest.

But your assertion that I have violated a confidence is nonsense. If you believe otherwise, direct your complaint to http://www.padisciplinaryboard.org/.

If you had consulted me on this specific case, my first piece of advice would be that you NOT post a detailed blow-by-blow on a forum - which is what I tell all of my clients, and I avoid cases in which clients appear determined to do that sort of thing.

But, no, a thoroughly unremarkable and brief telephone call about something else several months ago does not prevent me from referring to a published document at WIPO, particularly when you are engaging in posting potentially harmful misinformation
to others here at DNForum.

If you had consulted me on this specific case, my first piece of advice would be that you NOT post a detailed blow-by-blow on a forum

...but you did not consult me on this case. Instead, you posted a series of threads on the forum about your various derring-do, during the course of which I posted, again publically on the forum where you had asked, that the panel is not going to care much about a TM application filed after contact with the complainant.

Remarkably, I was 100% correct in my public answer to your public question.

You're welcome.
 

domaingenius

Level 8
Legacy Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2006
Messages
1,281
Reaction score
10
I am simply going to state the facts briefly I that is all as I have no time for
pointless arguing.

1. I 100% did call John Berryhill and ask him about the domain in question. I asked
how much he would charge etc etc.
2. JB must have known that I was not wanting to post the full story or I would have done so myself straight off YET JB decided that he would go ahead anyway as he
didnt give a shit as didnt matter to him.
3. I have NOT read the decision to this day. I knew it would come back negative as we all know WIPO is fixed and thus I instructed a lawyer to issue proceeding before
the decision was made.
4. The below email was received from JB on the 13th February 2009, before posted
my messages.
After a UDRP transfer decision, the registrar has to wait ten days
before transferring the domain name

It would be terrible if, during those ten days, the domain name was used
for spamming (and spamming the complainant's products), malware,
phishing, or other activities that would get the domain name into
filters and blacklists.

That would just be awful.

--
John Berryhill, Ph.d., Esq.
4 West Front Street
Media, PA 19063
(610) 565-5601
(267) 386-8115 fax
john at johnberryhill com

I shall be much much more circumspect in what I post in future
on this forum because as much as it can be useful it also can be equally
damaging and I think the minuses outweigh the pluses sometimes.
Of course everyone thinks that THEY are right but all I am saying
is that JB should have held his counsel and not explicitly point out
the information.

As far as I am concerned that is matter closed for myself and am getting
on with other biz.

DG
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Who has viewed this thread (Total: 1) View details

Who has watched this thread (Total: 4) View details

The Rule #1

Do not insult any other member. Be polite and do business. Thank you!

Members Online

Premium Members

Upcoming events

Our Mods' Businesses

*the exceptional businesses of our esteemed moderators

Top Bottom