SE Optimization

[Restecpa]

I have this domain, lets just call it xxxxxx.net (6 letters - 1 word) since I dont want to disclose it at the moment. The exact term: xxxxxx has been in January searched for 1.223.000 times (1 million, 2 hundred and twenty three thousand) on Overture. Other numbers of searches in Jan. for this same term on Overture, including ones with additional word added are:

280 - xxxxxx.net (in March 480)
1.223.000 - xxxxxx
135.000 - xxxxxx picture
108.000 xxxxxx lyric
24.000 xxxxxx wallpaper
20.000 xxxxxx show
and 270.000 for: xxxxxx +allotherthings

That sums up to: 1.223.000 (exact word) + 557.000 (exact word + additional) = 1.780.000 Overture searches in January

Now these are some nice search stats and even if I dont count those other searches, but only ones for exact one word, that makes 40.000 searches per day - just from Overture partners, and doesnt count Google searches and other search engines.

So what I wonder is, what are possibilities that I get my site ranked in search engines placed on the first page of results, preferably as one of the first listings? I have a developped site with a lot of content, Domain is also exact 1 word that is being searched for. So what are chances to achieve this goal with some SE optimization? If thats possible, 40.000 (or 20K, or even 10K..) new daily visitors would just make my day..

PS: If anyone has any ideas regarding this, please let me know. No matter if you think I have or have not chances in achieving this goal you welcome to post your feedback and let me know why "yes" or why "no". All suggestions are greatly appreciated!

PS: Search numbers have even grown since January (about 10% I think), but since Ive already made the calculations with Jan figures, lets just stick to those.

Thanks!

 

[Restecpa]

Just to clarify this.. There were many discussions about simillar issues in the past already, but nobody seems to have a clear answer. Im asking for suggestions on whats the best thing for me to do now, in order to achieve my goal and your oppinions on the "weight" that domain containing exact keyword carries when it comes to SE ranking. Is it a big advantage, or just a minor plus?

 

[bidawinner]

Restecpa, Those are excellent search numers .

And it sounds as if youare clear that those numbers represent roughly the size of a search market.

But there are 2 parts to this and the second part is how big is the competition?

use you same keyword and search google and see how MANY pages of competition you need to beat..

Lets say youre keyword was "music" for example

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=music

You would have to beat 108 MILLION webpages to rank on the first page of google !

It will take much more than "just" seo optimization.. you will need literally thosands of people LINKING to your site for google to rank you that high for such a keyword search...


Look at the backlinks on all the webites on the first page

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=music

You see the first site has over 6,000 links, 14,000 links oon the next (MTV)

The only way to rank that high is either to pay, adwords or sponsor listing OR come up with thosands of links.. thats really the bottom line.

Now , what you want to do is be more specific , what kind of music ? rock music , country music etc.. all the secondary keyword phrases that go with it (the main keyword Music)

even the bottom of the page for "music" those sites still need thosands of links but lets try the keyword phrase "Rock Music"

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=rock+music

Well it is still a highly competitive keyword phrase with 4 million results(competition) with the top spots still needing a few thosand links..but look at the bottom of the page like # 8, 9th , 10th and you see it is now "only" taking 40 to a couple hundred links.. much easier.. still a tremendous amount of work but certainly attainable .

So you target the scondary keywords..

Rock Music, country music, Rap music , etc.. and you'll have much better luck AND you'll have better sales because you will be getting people that arady know wnhat they are looking for,

I wouldnt stop there, continue to break yourt site down into the smallest parts.. start start keyword rich pages on specic rock bands, country stars etc.. you want Pink Floyd pages you want the Dixie chicks pages etc...

So instead of trying to get thosands of visitors on a under one keyword named Music , instead you want hundreds of pages each keyword rich pages on specific targets (rock music) (Pink floyd etc.. each page bringing in traffic..rich targeted traffic .

Yes, the Domain DOES matter, but it will NOT carry no where's near the weight to get you ranked high on those extremel competative words like Music... cant be more specific without knowing what keyword domain you want to use and how competitive it is ..

I think you are setting yourself up for a BIG let down if you think you are going to pull in 10k uniques a day.. because of a keyword rich domain and a little bit of SEO.. just isnt going to happen.

You may be best off doing a Google adwords campaign, have you priced what they are charging for "your" keyword?

Good Luck....

If you can be more specific on what you are targeting you can PM me and I'll take a closer look...

 

[Restecpa]

Bidawinner: Thanks, I appreciate your long and thoughtful answer. Competition is pretty big IMO - Goggle shows 2.500.000 pages containing that keyword. Curently Im ranked as 55th (4th on page 6), however thats from the last goggle dance and site has been up for only about a month now, so I havent had a chance to do much SEO yet. Without any promotion from my side, Im getting approx 800 uniques per day which is purely typein and word of mouth (by visitors). I believe this is pretty good, considering that site has been up for like a month, no search engine traffic and has been even offline (tech probs) for 10days sometime between..

PS: you said: "I wouldnt stop there, continue to break yourt site down into the smallest parts.. start start keyword rich pages on specic rock bands, country stars etc.. you want Pink Floyd pages you want the Dixie chicks pages etc..." The problem here is, that my keyword is not as open as "*music" would be, but is much more focused. Its actually as focused as a keyword can be - Its a fan page So unfortunately theres not much space for other keywords I believe, at least not in direct connection with domain keyword itself..

Regarding: "I think you are setting yourself up for a BIG let down if you think you are going to pull in 10k uniques a day.. because of a keyword rich domain and a little bit of SEO.. just isnt going to happen." Its not as if thats what I think, however considering that soon Ill be getting 1000 uniques without any SE traffic, I wouldnt be surprised if I manage to pull it off. Im also about to put up a forum and free email address @******.net and each email sent through my service will contain signature linking back to my site. I think this is a good way for me to build up a community, traffic and link pop as well..

Regarding Goggle Adwords, it just wouldnt pay off. Im not selling any products, all I have are few affiliate programs and CPM/CPC banners which Im about to set up soon.. As I said, its a fan page with large potential audience.

Once again, thanks for your reply!

 

[bidawinner]

Sounds like you are doing just fine, 800 uniques is excellent.

Looks like you are already doing nearly everything right, as a fan page the word has gotten around fast ..

I would concentrate on getting links, that will push you on to the front page of results.. with 800 daily uniques that shouldnt be very difficult to get other sites to link to you.

 

[deepstar]

So what I wonder is, what are possibilities that I get my site ranked in search engines placed on the first page of results, preferably as one of the first listings?

Your odds are the same as if you were to use xxx-XXXXXX-xx-xxx-xx.com where the XXXXXX is your domain as the domain does not make a difference in ranking as long as the domain contains the specific keyword you are targetting.

Eric

 

[Restecpa]

Are you saying that even if domain contains al kinds of crap lets say: www.dada-fdfd-keyword-haha.net its just as good as www.keyword.net?

 

[deepstar]

Originally posted by Restecpa
Are you saying that even if domain contains al kinds of crap lets say: www.dada-fdfd-keyword-haha.net its just as good as www.keyword.net?

When it comes to ranking in Google yes.

Eric

 

[bidawinner]

Originally posted by webcounter


When it comes to ranking in Google yes.

Eric

Actually that is incorrect..
This has been an on going debate over the years and the bottom line is all other things considered "keyword" will beat xxx-keyword-xxxxx hands down

The reason has do do with keyword density in the google algo, you are diluting by adding the xxx-------xxxxx ...

That said xxx-keyword-xxxx Will in turn beat a site with just xxxx-xxxx-xxxx all other things considered (links,content etc..)


so WEIGHT wise:

1.) keyword
2.) xxxx-keyword-xxxx
3.) xxxx-xxxxxxx-xxxxx

 

[bidawinner]

Let me point out that is simply my opinion ..nothing is set in stone with search engine algos...

Google is constantly tweaking their algo and at times it seems like domain are not given any weight all , then the next update domains seem to be getting all the weight...
Google is currently in algo that is once again giving decent weight for relevant domains.

 

[deepstar]

Regardless, if you have keyword.com and you don't have correct internal links, link popularity and content and xxx-xxx-keyword.com does then that domain will show up first.

I guess what I am saying is that when it comes to ranking in Google ones domain does not make that much difference unless you do the other things that will increase your ranking.

Eric

 

[deepstar]

I own webcounter.com. This website is not what I would called optimized well. Please view the query http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=webcounter and you will that digits.com has the #1 spot and I am 3rd.

Next do a link pop on digits.com and webcounter.com and you will see that his link pop kills me by 1,700,000 links.

As you can see, digits.com does not have the query used thus google may have subtracted points but overall it made no difference.

I guess what I am saying is that if you had keyword.com and your competitor had xxx-keyword-xxx.com and you both had the extact same sites linking to you and the exact same keyword density then it would make sense to me (if I wrote the google algo) to make keyword.com come before xxx-keyword-xxx.com.

Eric

 

[Restecpa]

Thanks guys, I agree. Im working on all the aspects mentioned in order to achieve the best results.. I just think that keyword.net still carries more weight than ones including other words as well since its clearly more focused on that one keyword in question..

 

[Restecpa]

Originally posted by webcounter
Next do a link pop on digits.com and webcounter.com and you will see that his link pop kills me by 1,700,000 links.

As you can see, digits.com does not have the query used thus google may have subtracted points but overall it made no difference.

Yeah offcourse.. I mean million links more, it logical that theyll be ranked higher. Can you really draw a compraisson here to what I was talking about? I never said that linkpop doesnt matter, all I said was that I believe that keyword.net gives me some plus when compared to others with less relevant name. Thanks for your research, much appreciated!

 

[deepstar]

I have a better example. My site freebiespace.com is on the top of the 2nd page for the query "free product samples". Below my site is the website freeproductsamples.com.

In this case, freeproductsamples.com has the exact query as the domain and 40+ more links into their site yet I am listed higher.

Your domain may give you a very small advantage over competitors but the only way to ever measure this is to take two domains, receive the same links in and use the same html.

If you dont know how to optimize your page and someone else does then they will pass you with any domain. One can very easily get cats.com to the #1 position for the query "dogs" as long as the site is built write and the link pop is there.

Eric

 

[Restecpa]

Linkpop doesnt just count links, but also their quality. Thus, although you have 40 links less, they might be of better quality and therefore your site prevails. Another think could be that your site has just better density of keywords, and better SEO. Im just guessing..

 

[deepstar]

Originally posted by Restecpa
Linkpop doesnt just count links, but also their quality. Thus, although you have 40 links less, they might be of better quality and therefore your site prevails. Another think could be that your site has just better density of keywords, and better SEO. Im just guessing..

Right, therefore proving that a domain name holds very little weight regarding ones Google ranking. Though I am sure it does hold some weight, I do not feel it is enough to raise ones rankings signficantly.

Eric

 

[bidawinner]

Originally posted by webcounter
I have a better example. My site freebiespace.com is on the top of the 2nd page for the query "free product samples". Below my site is the website freeproductsamples.com.

In this case, freeproductsamples.com has the exact query as the domain and 40+ more links into their site yet I am listed higher.

Your domain may give you a very small advantage over competitors but the only way to ever measure this is to take two domains, receive the same links in and use the same html.

If you dont know how to optimize your page and someone else does then they will pass you with any domain. One can very easily get cats.com to the #1 position for the query "dogs" as long as the site is built write and the link pop is there.

Eric

Which is exactly why IMO Google is flawed from the git go because it is based on linkpop..

Cats.com should NEVER come up under query for dogs UNLESS as you say point out link pop takes it their...but of course we understand the only way link pop could ever do that is by a webmaster "cheating" creating his own link pop to take it there because in reality(know one is going to create anchor text links (dogs) to link to a Cats site.... Linkpop is simply a very abused system.

Your example is not correct though ..your site has less links but more stronger links..links from sites with more PR4 or stronger siites, while the other site dosent show any links with at least a PR 4 .

Yes, your keyword density is also better, but more important is the strength of inbound links over quantity, I think thats what you are seeing Eric.

Bottom line,

It is a combination of Domain Name, Links, strength of links, content, keyword density in content and tags...etc..


No one single thing will take you to the top, but strong links will get you the closest as you are obviosly aware..so start sharing all those links

 

[deepstar]

When I say link pop I refer to not only the quantity but also the quality. Any site can get 100 links in but if those sites have a PR of 2 then it is useless. It is much better to xchange links with a PR7+.

I was just trying to argue my point that a keyword specific domain name holds very little weight when ranking on Google.

Im pretty sure we are all on the same page, we just have different ways of explaining it. My way happens to be confusing

Eric

 

[Restecpa]

Originally posted by bidawinner
No one single thing will take you to the top, but strong links will get you the closest as you are obviosly aware..so start sharing all those links

I just have with RJ Now I have to find some other sites with good PR, since I dont want to link just to anyone..