Shame, Shame, Shame!

[Gerry]

Recently, I have had buyers back out of three sales after committing to the purchase of fixed pricing.

The sales were public threads and commitments.

I don't care if it was $1 one dollar or $1 one million dollars (it was neither of those amounts), it is a commitment, a contract, and a matter of principle.

I did not leave a negative iTrader because I just didn't feel like it.


But here's the ball buster...not only did these members not respond to several PM's over several days after posting sold, they are still running around on the forum as if nothing ever happened and continue to post in sales threads.

It is the audacity of these members who totally ignore a seller as if somehow, in a miraculous way, the PM machine does not work. I really can't think of too many misinterpretations of SOLD in a public thread.

The reason I bring this up now is because I have been communicating with a few other members who are encountering similar issues. Bottom line, it appears that there is a big upswing of non-payment after committing to buy. Or, posting an offer with no intent of paying that amount when offering accepting within a very short time period.

There are too many no-show, no-pay buyers circulating on the forum.

A red iTrader mark does not, in my opinion, does not do much in the prevention of or detering these members from continuing on in a casual business as usual manner.

With proof provided (the thread, the sent PM's) and adequate time period established for completing the deal I feel that there should be a more firmer stance by the forum than simply getting a little red tick mark.

 

[INFORG]

It is a pretty simple concept - If you make an offer, you honor it . If you made a mistake, you can ask the buyer/seller to let you out of your obligation and give them a compelling reason. Most of us might actually let you slide on it. But, what really should happen is that you finish the deal as offered. I have many times made an offer that , in hindsight, I shouldn't have made. I had one just recently where my short term finances took an unexpected dip, and at the same time, someone jumped quickly on an offer I had made just prior. I had to scramble and finish the deal. It is nobody's fault or responsibility but mine.

I imagine most of the bad deals belong to folks that joined in 2010 - they just don't have enough reputation to protect for them to care. Having been in and out of domaining for years, and an early member here, my profile and reputation is worth more than backing out of a deal of any size.

 

[Theo]

Irrelevant: the CSS in threads is broken as it displays text in italics once a post is made with HTML formatting. I believe there is an option to turn such formatting off in the vBulettin settings.

On the subject of non-paying buyers, I'd like to comment that there is also the extreme opposite: those that do follow up on a purchase commitment and are very meticulous and professional; just completed a 5-figure sale that originated on DNForum and could not be any happier.

 

[ecomindia]

Irrelevant: the CSS in threads is broken as it displays text in italics once a post is made with HTML formatting. I believe there is an option to turn such formatting off in the vBulettin settings.

On the subject of non-paying buyers, I'd like to comment that there is also the extreme opposite: those that do follow up on a purchase commitment and are very meticulous and professional; just completed a 5-figure sale that originated on DNForum and could not be any happier.

No, it is with the HTML based UserNames, now post anything after my post, and see wverything will be italic post facto and everything will be ok prior to my post
congrats! ... so how much u gonna donate,,

 

[A D]

I still see posting 'sold' in a sale and not following through as a 7 day ban. 2nd time perm ban.

It's much harder for the forum to deal with if it's done in pm's. So to protect yourself have them post in the threads.

Even if they edit their post, as vb admin, I can see their edited out post to see if the posted sold.

Editing out the post does not hide the original post to me.

I am all for stiff punishments for this.

-=DCG=-

 

[Maxwell]

I still see posting 'sold' in a sale and not following through as a 7 day ban. 2nd time perm ban.

It's much harder for the forum to deal with if it's done in pm's. So to protect yourself have them post in the threads.

Even if they edit their post, as vb admin, I can see their edited out post to see if the posted sold.

Editing out the post does not hide the original post to me.

I am all for stiff punishments for this.

-=DCG=-

100% agreed.

I don't think there's any need to make such bans made public. Some people slip up and deserve a second chance. But I've always said, "If you need a third chance, you didn't deserve the second."

To ensure that first-time offenders won't re-offend, I think that reinstatement should be contingent on them formally apologizing to the victim, as well as acknowledging that a repeat offense will result in a permanent ban.

 

[ecomindia]

can we vote, if is possible, lets see what people want...

 

[Gerry]

can we vote, if is possible, lets see what people want...

Vote?

Vote on what?

Why?

To determine if we need a new or different iTrader system?

A trader seperate trader rating system as a buyer? and as a seller?

I am seeing the suggestions being put forth in the thread. And I am reading a few that does nothing to deter the practice of not paying. Those suggestions do nothing to stop the practice and only permits them to remain on the forum.

Seriously, we have to ask ourselves IF that is the crowd (whether older or newer members) we want to do business with or have on the forum.

Sure we're a community. Sure we have a say in things.

And it is because of that, I say let them go to another community.

As for your lets see what people want, I think it is pretty clear that people want sales to be conducted professionally and in a timely manner.

I am not being difficult here. But even the owner of the forum recognizes this as being a problem and would like to see a better (and firmer) method of dealing with these non-payers.

Enough is enough. We have no control or say on how this is done on ebay, sedo, afternic, snap, bido, name and every other auction platform. But here on DNF we (the mods, admin, members) can finally do something that will get the message across to these people that this activity will not be tolerated.

I think Adam's suggestion of a week ban on first offense is firm and at the same time lenient.

This is a forum, a business, a marketplace. It's time the offenders realize this but more importantly come to the realization that non-payers will not be tolerated.


I have every bit of confidence, trust, and faith in the mods/admin in handling this matter with professionalism and impartiality.

Naturally, evidence would need to be submitted demonstrating someone's commitment to purchase an item and then that person backing out or not responding.

I would rather spend my time in completing sales and pushing and transferring names for the buyer than spending time tracking down the buyer and having to come on the forum and b*tch about non-payers.

Honestly, this is not just about me. I have seen countless threads of non-payment lately and have discussed this in PM's with other members.

---------- Post added at 12:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:45 AM ----------

To ensure that first-time offenders won't re-offend, I think that reinstatement should be contingent on them formally apologizing to the victim, as well as acknowledging that a repeat offense will result in a permanent ban.

I am not interested in an apology. Someone who does not respond to PM's for days does so on purpose and does not intend on being cooperative.

But I love your proposal in principal. A week's suspension based on the evidence, it does not need to be public (the iTrader would be a give away) nor any public flogging, but also a stern warning from staff to offender and acknowledgement from the offender that a repeat offense will result in possible termination of account.

 

[ecomindia]

Vote?

Vote on what?

Why?

To determine if we need a new or different iTrader system?

A trader seperate trader rating system as a buyer? and as a seller?

did u replied or asked further
on a serious note, i askewd voting for having a new system, so we can quantify from the pubic opinion.
opinion remains as suggestion for DNF staff, not necessarily to be implemented and broadcasted/shared.

as a buyer, i will liek to see the person reputation as a seller
similarly, as a seller , i will like to see the person reputation as a buyer

they are 2 different sides which defines the basic of business and a person might
face problems being a buyer, but maybe good into selling...

Enough is enough. We have no control or say on how this is done on ebay, sedo, afternic, snap, bido, name and every other auction platform. But here on DNF we (the mods, admin, members) can finally do something that will get the message across to these people that this activity will not be tolerated.

This is a forum, a business, a marketplace. It's time the offenders realize this but more importantly come to the realization that non-payers will not be tolerated

SEDO, eBAY and other are auction , listing platforms and already have rules , regulations, penalties, big terms & conditiions in place ...
and as u said, DNF still need some further action on these non acceptable activities

I think Adam's suggestion of a week ban on first offense is firm and at the same time lenient.

India and US has something in Common - Democracy , beside principles followed by Mahatama Gandhi

I have every bit of confidence, trust, and faith in the mods/admin in handling this matter with professionalism and impartiality.
Naturally, evidence would need to be submitted demonstrating someone's commitment to purchase an item and then that person backing out or not responding.

Every one has trust on the platform , and becuase of that hope, users sell & buy here.
Judgement when done , is critical and that is the reason , this issue has come up, maybe user new to DNF are msotly not aware of the rules (EVEN i took time to understand) or a bit unprofessional users more migrating here

It should not happen to DNF, where users start criticizing about the other forums more often
http://www.dnforum.com/f17/namepros...niffing-fiasco-thread-441079.html#post1959225

See, the last solutions is as DotCOMGod mentioned, 7 days and then permanent ban..

In the industry we are in or be it any thing, there is a severity level attached to everytype of offence
Ex - Level 1 - High Impact, Level 2 - Mid Impact , Level 3 - Low Impact
Any Level 1 impact is a 1 week BAN, then permanent BAN
Any Level 2 impact is a warning, 2 times - 1 week ban, 3 times - BAN
Any Level 3 impact is a warning (no banning), May be 3 times will lead to a warning.

It is very eay way of having a tabular format maintained .
We have in our work place for certain business processes and check the table to mark a offence..

 

[reidy3000]

I have over 1200 positive feedbacks and 100% record on Ebay and I am being unfairly judged by "PRED".
I have not stolen anything from him and I am not a "joker" or a "fool", this is slanderous behaviour.

 

[PRED]

I have over 1200 positive feedbacks and 100% record on Ebay and I am being unfairly judged by "PRED".
I have not stolen anything from him and I am not a "joker" or a "fool", this is slanderous behaviour.

not only did you fail to pay for a deal that you backed out of, you had the cheek to leave me negative itrader feedback after i left you it to warn the community you are a deadbeat
all factual, i have the pms and emails to prove which i showed admins
of course the negative feedback you left was removed for me after it was looked into by admin
i am amazed you have the gall to even dare to post. imho you need at least a temporary ban, ideally permanent
ebay feedback means nothing, this is dnforum. i suggest you are suited to staying on ebay

your itrader rating now speaks volumes about you and hope dnf members will know not to waste their time with you or trust you
do not waste anymore of my time

this is the problem with dealing with individuals like this , it wastes so much time. why do they do it??

 

[reidy3000]

Your a complete idiot and a school ground bully, I have dealt with people like you all my life.
Why dont we just settle this the good old fashioned way Mel?

 

[PRED]

Your a complete idiot and a school ground bully, I have dealt with people like you all my life.
Why dont we just settle this the good old fashioned way Mel?

you clearly need to wake up and smell the coffee
you agreed to buy. you backed out of a deal. i even sent you a polite email to prove i was the owner and waited pateintly for payment. i sent a very polite reminder. you then back out for some mickey mouse reason saying as i had listed before.
you clearly do not understand basic business dealings or common manners. you also had the audacity to lie when leaving me negative feedback.
i recommend this 'member' gets banned from dnf as i for one have no more time to deal with this waster. you failed to do a deal and are tying up lots of my time. the admin team and Adam have all the facts
if you had apologised or had a very good reason i would have overlooked but your attitude stinks.
all things considered i have remained very cordial. trust me

seriously, wake up. if you agree to a deal you need to see it through. what are you not understanding?
is it just that you're scottish and have short arms and deep pockets LOL

i am going to hand this over to admin team as i have stuff to do, and a life lol

 

[reidy3000]

I see that one of your domains is vacuumlifting.co.uk quite appropriate.....
- you clearly need to remove the vacuum that is current residing within your own head.

 

[PRED]

not bad
made me chuckle

 

[Gerry]

I have over 1200 positive feedbacks and 100% record on Ebay and I am being unfairly judged by "PRED".
I have not stolen anything from him and I am not a "joker" or a "fool", this is slanderous behaviour.

This is not ebay and this is precisely why this matter needs to be addressed.

 

[CorrectName.Com]

I've had fewer problems with DNforum than anywhere with that especially in the last couple of years. I used to set out all kinds of rules about PM and payment within a certain time periond on and on. I problably don't use the itrader as much as I should. We know its not truly sold until the money hits your account, and even then doesnt mean that paypal our whatever method gets reversed as the payment was stolen or something.

I'd really like to see the owners here get their webmasterforum up and going as there sure seems to be space for it, as I basicly only post at three places and don't regret it and two are just out of having to. This place is the best about Mods and the posters and most doing what they say. Yeah there are a few bad apples and it is a pain when people dont pay or dont pay on a timely manner or keep good contact.

I do think perhaps that saying you require a PM after posting sold saying when you are paying would perhaps help, least then you have a time frame. Always going to have these type issues but this place is the best I've found about it not happening that often.

 

[DN BROKER]

HELLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

submit your negative feedback and move on. thats why we have itrader ratings... if your stupid enough to not check a person trader rating and make a deal then you deserve it..... if the person has a good trader rating and things go wrong then submit a negative feedback and move on its that simple.

 

[Maxwell]

HELLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

submit your negative feedback and move on. thats why we have itrader ratings... if your stupid enough to not check a person trader rating and make a deal then you deserve it..... if the person has a good trader rating and things go wrong then submit a negative feedback and move on its that simple.

The itrader rating may be a public indicator of somebody's habits - but it doesn't stop them from re-offending. Also, someone who has earned a good itrader rating can become a non-payer just the same as a new member.

People who are obvious deadbeats shouldn't be allowed to engage in business on this forum. Feedback doesn't change that. Bans, whether permanent or temporary, do just that.

 

[DN BROKER]

The itrader rating may be a public indicator of somebody's habits - but it doesn't stop them from re-offending. Also, someone who has earned a good itrader rating can become a non-payer just the same as a new member.

People who are obvious deadbeats shouldn't be allowed to engage in business on this forum. Feedback doesn't change that. Bans, whether permanent or temporary, do just that.

we had this issue several times in the past 3 years and nothing was done to them, if you recall with had several members involved in such shameful acts and the dnf staff did not do much about it, we discussed that we should have a FLAG or an ICON labeled on such members so others are aware of such scumbags. I don't have the time to look for that thread and nothing has changed since.

 

[Gerry]

People who are obvious deadbeats shouldn't be allowed to engage in business on this forum. Feedback doesn't change that. Bans, whether permanent or temporary, do just that.

Precisely. Why leave a negative iTrader rating when that person obviously does not care. And yet allow them to continue on the forum conducting business as usual?

No thanks.

Recess is over, kids. Time to put on your big boy pants and give an accounting of yourself.