cctld Why investing in .au beats investing in .com hands down...

[netfleet]

End users are shunning .com because there is just no value left in the extension. Half decent names command crazy prices and there's nothing decent left to hand reg so end users are instead using alternative extensions especially their local ccTLD (after all 95% of businesses only seek trade from within their shores) which has a Google ranking advantage over .com and shows many times better value. Drop in end-user demand necessitates a fall in values (as we have seen over the past couple of years). Com values are only avoiding a real collapse due to the hordes of eager newbie domainers who prop up values by throwing away new money paying too much for domains from seasoned domain holders.

.AU on the other hand has the following going for it:

Juvenile market (trading only been permitted for 3 years) so still yet to hit its investment peak
Constant changes in auDA policy with generally relaxing regulations inject value into the space
National broadband network to be rolled out over next few years
Strong and growing end-user loyalty
Solid growth in registration statistics (year to 04/11 it was 21% compared to 9% for .com) http://www.hosterstats.com/DomainNameCounts2010.php
Strong AU economy underpinning online investment

 

[hugegrowth]

I think you are being harsh in your .com assessment, and where do you get your facts?

.AU has a good future, but it is a small market. If I was Australian, I'd probably be investing in both .com and .au

If you invest only in .au then you limit your market to only a fraction of the world's population. With .com, you have a potential world market of possible users.

.com sales continue to be strong in price and numbers every week as seen by DNJournal's report. Many examples of established companies paying up for a .com to replace a worse domain they are using, or for a new product. I wouldn't say newbie domainers are propping up .com prices at all!

 

[Gerry]

...just no value left in the extension. Half decent names command crazy prices...

No value but yet, command crazy prices.

Yup, great assessment.

 

[netfleet]

I think you are being harsh in your .com assessment, and where do you get your facts?

.AU has a good future, but it is a small market. If I was Australian, I'd probably be investing in both .com and .au

If you invest only in .au then you limit your market to only a fraction of the world's population. With .com, you have a potential world market of possible users.

.com sales continue to be strong in price and numbers every week as seen by DNJournal's report. Many examples of established companies paying up for a .com to replace a worse domain they are using, or for a new product. I wouldn't say newbie domainers are propping up .com prices at all!

Well it's just a theory. How do you explain the fall in com prices (as evidenced by Sedo, DNjournal etc (sshhh no one wants to talk about it)).

Agree that the size of the .au market is tiny compared to the com market. But market size doesn't determine ROI - liquidity and volatility perhaps, but not growth. If you want to invest in a big market, you'd be best to get out of domains very quickly! One of the biggest investment markets out there would be US property.... yikes! Give me a small but growing market any day.

Re the newbie com domainers - where are they all then? What proportion of new domainers entered the market in 2006-2009 say, concentrated on .com and now earn a full time living off them? Bugger all I would guess. Not so with .AU and, I would suspect, .UK, .CA, .NL, .DE etc

No value but yet, command crazy prices.

Yup, great assessment.

You got it!

'There's no value to be had investing in .com due to crazy prices'

 

[allis]

hi netfleet!

i'm kind of new here...could you please explain a little bit more about what you wrote here?

Re the newbie com domainers - where are they all then? What proportion of new domainers entered the market in 2006-2009 say, concentrated on .com and now earn a full time living off them? Bugger all I would guess. Not so with .AU and, I would suspect, .UK, .CA, .NL, .DE etc

is this to mean that you believe the new domainers NOT investing in dot com are actually doing better with these other extentions, because if so, i would be curious to understand why.

thanks!

 

[netfleet]

Hi Allis,

Yes I think new domainers will do better if they look at other extensions other than .com particularly ccTLDs.

Not to say you can't make money in .com - you can make money in ANY investment market but it's that much harder in a flat or falling market. To do so you have to do better than all the 1,000's of experienced domainers which is pretty hard for a newbie.

However investing in a growing market means even average or poor choices can come good in time. The market may be more volatile, speculative and less liquid so you still need to make smart choices to get ahaed but IMO it's many times more likely.

The problem is that new domainers get all excited, blinkered by the 'com is king' foolish mantra and dazzled by the huge prices reported by DNJ and assume that investing in anything else other than .com is a compromise which isn't so. Spending $100 on somedomain.ccTLD then selling it for $500 12 months later is a better return than spending $10,000 on the .com equivalent and selling it 12 months later for $9,000 (or even getting lucky and selling it for $12,000 or $20,000... whatever... the point is you can't get returns like that in .com very easily)

Unfortunately these newbie 'sheeple' follow the crowd and are often encouraged by seasoned .com domainers who have a vested interest in talking up the extension as the new blood helps prop up the prices. Enough fresh cannon fodder coming through and the virtual ponzi scheme keeps the top guys happy. Even the middle and newbie guys need to be bullish because it's in their interests too... it's taboo to do anything to the contrary - like talking about a real estate crash on a property investment forum.

I think there have already been some mini collapses in certain sectors like LLLL.com and LLL.com because it was domainers propping up values, not end-users which the market needs.

Now that I've alienated myself to 3/4 of the DNForum members, I'd better shut up! I admit that I'm deliberately being provocative so please don't take it personally, don't hate me and don't worry about any of my gibberish having any effect. Whatever the state of play, I believe it's end-users and end-users alone that will dictate the direction of domain values. Also, I do have a vested interest in ccTLDs (esp .au) so you might want to take that into account.

 

[allis]

hi Netfleet!

thank you for your very comprhensive response!

i totally agree with you on many fine points and applaud your honesty is telling it like it is!

afterall, even google practically eliminated the dot co craze by deindexing them.

i too, have invested in other ccTLD's and have a true belief in their value.

best!

 

[katherine]

I'm not dissing .com.au but I think it's like .ca, unless you are a national, it's difficult to tap the market unless you're willing to incorporate perhaps.
Many other ccTLDs have no eligiblity requirements whatsoever.
Also, the registry has been anti-domainer for a very long time, I understand trading of domains is now allowed but I was also under the impression there are remnants of the past in the policies. Obviously, relaxing the rules = more opportunities.

 

[PRED]

agree with Katherine

 

[fatter]

I dont register any ext except .com If kangaroos get net access I will consider it, but till then I prefer to reg an extension that reaches 6.6 billion people. If I had a business in australia I would own both but from my point of view dotcom has kept me in the black and no longer hold any country extensions
Joe t

 

[netfleet]

hi Netfleet!

thank you for your very comprhensive response!

i totally agree with you on many fine points and applaud your honesty is telling it like it is!

afterall, even google practically eliminated the dot co craze by deindexing them.

i too, have invested in other ccTLD's and have a true belief in their value.

best!

Hey no worries at all - you've very welcome.

I'm not dissing .com.au but I think it's like .ca, unless you are a national, it's difficult to tap the market unless you're willing to incorporate perhaps.
Many other ccTLDs have no eligiblity requirements whatsoever.
Also, the registry has been anti-domainer for a very long time, I understand trading of domains is now allowed but I was also under the impression there are remnants of the past in the policies. Obviously, relaxing the rules = more opportunities.

Yes it is a bit harder for a non Aussie to get into .au (which has probably protected the value and aopportunities for so many years). However all you would need to do is get a TM (any old TM) registered in Australia, then you can use that number for *ANY* future registrations. Not practical if you are after a few but if you want to add a few hundred .au's to your portfolio, it's worth the effort. PM me if you need any more details.

I think .ca and .com.au share a lot of characteristics actually.


Thanks guys - was expecting a barrage of abuse when I checked this thread. Should post it elsewhere on the forum maybe

 

[DNCredit.com]

Speaking as a local and having offloaded some myself, I think there is a sweet spot in the three to four-digit price range. We're a relatively small country but there's a fair-sized economy here with all the marketing requirements that would drive the domain market (i.e. businesses still compete for the sales dollar and strive for consumer recall and targeted search).

 

[furca]

When Google.com redirects to Google.com.au, then i'll believe it. Until then...

 

[Honan]

When Google.com redirects to Google.com.au, then i'll believe it. Until then...

Google.com redirects to Google.com.au for me
Then it gives me the choice:
Pages from Australia or All
I think it behaves that way because I am logged into Google and I live in Australia

 

[netfleet]

Speaking as a local and having offloaded some myself, I think there is a sweet spot in the three to four-digit price range. We're a relatively small country but there's a fair-sized economy here with all the marketing requirements that would drive the domain market (i.e. businesses still compete for the sales dollar and strive for consumer recall and targeted search).

Yes I think that's a good call.- $XX sales are held back by hassle & transfer fees etc and are pretty much non-existant.

When Google.com redirects to Google.com.au, then i'll believe it. Until then...

Well start believing buddy, because that's what happens for 23m Australians (whether they are logged into Google or not) :lol:

 

[james2002]

I stay away from .us and others which this and that. Same for .com.au and it would be a problem to apply for TM etc.

Yes it is a bit harder for a non Aussie to get into .au (which has probably protected the value and aopportunities for so many years). However all you would need to do is get a TM (any old TM) registered in Australia, then you can use that number for *ANY* future registrations. Not practical if you are after a few but if you want to add a few hundred .au's to your portfolio, it's worth the effort. PM me if you need any more details.

If someone just got TM in Australia and no trading and he buy hundreds of .com.au, it might be abuse and run a risk of his domains being taken away in some future.

.com domains are safer in that sense.

 

[dcristo]

I'm not dissing .com.au but I think it's like .ca, unless you are a national, it's difficult to tap the market unless you're willing to incorporate perhaps.
Many other ccTLDs have no eligiblity requirements whatsoever.
Also, the registry has been anti-domainer for a very long time, I understand trading of domains is now allowed but I was also under the impression there are remnants of the past in the policies. Obviously, relaxing the rules = more opportunities.

Yep, the one huge drawback with .com.au and one that is unlikely to change anytime soon.

In saying that, a lot of Australian businesses are still yet to "get it" so to speak when it comes to doing business online. So there is probably still an opportunity for domainers, but its a hard sell and with the registration restrictions the extension just becomes really unappealing.

I'm pretty sure this is not the case with .co.uk is that right?

 

[netfleet]

I dont register any ext except .com If kangaroos get net access I will consider it, but till then I prefer to reg an extension that reaches 6.6 billion people. If I had a business in australia I would own both but from my point of view dotcom has kept me in the black and no longer hold any country extensions
Joe t

Very funny. You are only in the black because you started domaining at least 8 years ago. Everybody (even you) has lost money in com over the last few years (or show me an exception) and will probably continue to do so

Yawn...the argument about investing in the biggest market possible is flawed - big markets do not equate to growth. Two different concepts and you should really try to learn the difference before you lose more money.

I stay away from .us and others which this and that. Same for .com.au and it would be a problem to apply for TM etc.

If someone just got TM in Australia and no trading and he buy hundreds of .com.au, it might be abuse and run a risk of his domains being taken away in some future.

.com domains are safer in that sense.

No I don't think there's any chance that AU would retrospectively change the rules.


Some news today from PwC states that online spending is still very strong in AU compared with other markets

Australia - 13% pa growth
UK - 9% growth
US - 7% growth

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-26/australian-online-shopping-research-report/2810044

 

[DNTrade]

I'm not dissing .com.au but I think it's like .ca, unless you are a national, it's difficult to tap the market unless you're willing to incorporate perhaps.
Many other ccTLDs have no eligiblity requirements whatsoever.
Also, the registry has been anti-domainer for a very long time, I understand trading of domains is now allowed but I was also under the impression there are remnants of the past in the policies. Obviously, relaxing the rules = more opportunities.

You're quite right in most of what you say Katherine (perhaps not the incorporate bit though).

But little by little the rules are being relaxed - in fact I think you will see a couple of big changes before this year is out.

And because "most people" believe it is difficult to reg Aussie domains, therein lies the opportunity for those willing to go the extra mile. As Netfleet mentioned, applying for a TM is one way. However there is also another simple option available which I'm happy to share by PM if you're interested.

 

[Poker]

I see no problem with competition talking itself out of opportunity.