Wls

[HeavyLifting]

i see lots of people inviting WLS now that the whole grab game seems to have moved to bidding.

but how can you compete in WLS? seems like someone with big pockets will just buy the positions for every worthwhile domain and then wait and see if they ever expire. by the time you get to sift through any on hold list, everything will be taken - and there's no opportunity to get in line.

 

[garymayor]

That's an old wifes tale. There'll be plenty more opportunity to grab decent names new things will pop up i've got something in the pipline for us all just wait and see. When the WLS system comes into play it will be a lot harder for the big boys to compete why do you think there against it. The system will go back to the way it was and the boys with the most money won't matter so much because everyone will have an equal chance.

Just wait and see.

 

[JMJ]

As someone has said before if it ever does go into effect the owners of the great names will be bombarded with offers via phone, emails, and mail delivery as soon as people see the backorder.

 

[garymayor]

maybe so but hey if the registrars could get hold of them to renew there names then i'm sure most of them would renew but my bet is a lot of them no one will be able to get hold off. It'll be like the old days.

 

[Attilio]

I will say it again:

You can say whatever you want, you might even have rock solid points against WLS but if the current system do not let even the minimal chance to small guys to get any semi-decent name you will get all of them pushing WLS or anything else might give them an hope, as hard as they can.

Regarding specific points:

The typology of valuable domains is so wide that I sincerely doubt ther would be anyone able to buy out all the WLS on advance. Someone might buy all the WLS on single words .com and 3 letter but how they could manage the universe of typos, link popularity (which change day by day) and any other kind of traffic domains which in many cases are even most valuable than one words or 3 letter ?

Right now the owners of the most valuable names are already bombarded with buyers inquiries/offers as soon as the domain approach the ON-HOLD status, a very few sell at reasonable prices, most renew and start asking absurde amounts of money, some do not care at all and let the domain expire anyway and NO FEW can not be contacted because their whois contact info are not updated or invalid.
WLS will change that only a bit, that is the inquiries/offers will be probably more but owners who do not care and/or can not be contacted there will always be.

Made that clear even If I do not like WLS, better said in particular if I do not like WLS I would start trying in hear what other people say more than name calling them.

I would start in try thinking about alternative options to WLS and current "only bidding" system because it looks clear to me that day after day there are more and more people changing their mind about who the devil is beetwen registrars coalition and Verisign.

thanks,

 

[garymayor]

Damn good points there Attilio you said it in one anyone else got any problems with WLS. I totally agree with Attilio the WLS is not perfect and still needs a few enhancements but that will come.

 

[hiOsilver]

Attilio has stated the facts quite well. Thanks for a very thoughtful post.

Gradually everyone will figure this out. Let's hope that the Domain "Justice" Coalition (there is an organization with a misleading name -- they should be more honest, as they are not interested in justice for anyone) and the congressmen they have misled fail in their efforts to derail WLS. We should be organizing a pro-WLS group to back ICANN.

Even if you don't like Verisign/NSI (and not many domain owners do), NSI, with WLS, offers the fairest solution for distributing a public resource (i.e. domains that are being dropped by their owners). As it is now, the whole system is shifting as if the dropping names are owned by the registrars. When Pool auctions off names after they drop, that is about as close to ownership as they can get. In fact, they do own the names for a period of time. All of the registrars will end up with Pool or NW or a similar bid system if WLS fails.

 

[DropWizard.com]

Let's hope that the Domain "Justice" Coalition (there is an organization with a misleading name -- they should be more honest, as they are not interested in justice for anyone)

Yeah it's such a shame they have the law on their side.

Otherwise we could have a screw-the-client monopoly you all seem to want.

 

[actnow]

If we got 100% of DNF to agree with WLS.

Or, if we got 100% of DNF to oppose WLS.

It will have ZERO effect on the future of WLS.


(Please don't send anymore hate PM's because of my position.)

 

[hiOsilver]

Originally posted by actnow
If we got 100% of DNF to agree with WLS.

Or, if we got 100% of DNF to oppose WLS.

It will have ZERO effect on the future of WLS.

Interesting opinion. Why do you believe this to be the case?

 

[_Yakov_]

I think we need to support WLS, so that profits concentrate in resellers' hands rather than in registrar's.
:bandit:

 

[DropWizard.com]

Originally posted by actnow
If we got 100% of DNF to agree with WLS.

Or, if we got 100% of DNF to oppose WLS.

It will have ZERO effect on the future of WLS.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Interesting opinion. Why do you believe this to be the case?

******************************************

Because the law supports the anti-wls position

 

[hiOsilver]

Which law(s) is that?

If it is a US law, then why does DJC need to get Congress to pass a new law?

 

[Jack Gordon]

One of my major complaints about WLS was how it would so drastically raise the price of domains that are dropping. The registrars against WLS had a great case to make for keeping competition alive and benefitting the consumer.

As far as I am concerned, they are blowing it with these bidding systems. Any sympathy they once had from domainers is quickly fading and in fact they are making Verisign's pricing look like the better option.

How stupid can they be? They are undercutting their own support at this crucial time in the fight against WLS. This is bad strategy and as much as I like to root for the underdogs, I think they deserve to lose this fight. I just wish there was someone other than Verisign to run it, and I wish they were not going to be able to get away with gouging us.

If WLS does happen, I will hold the anti-WLS registrars accountable for it. They had the public's support and they squandered it for greed.

 

[hiOsilver]

Think of the economics this way:

1. Many, but not all, dropping domains are worth a lot more than the cost of registration. This margin would be 100% available to the general public if everyone had an equal chance of registering the names. That margin is worth many thousands of dollars per day.

2. Registrars have all of the ultimate power, as they can beat the ordinary person with the registrar connections to the registry.

3. With auction systems the rule (and that is the way it is headed), the registrars will be in a position to grab most of the margin. They will continue to push this up because they are trying to make a profit (which I don't blame them).

4. With WLS, some of the margin will go to NSI and they will even make $ on subscriptions of no real value (fools will put $ down for names that will never drop).

5. With WLS, competition among registrars will push their share of the margin to very low levels. Some have said that they will price WLS at no profit as a loss leader to gain customers & market share.

Bottom Line: With WLS, registrars will have most to lose. Without WLS, registrars will end up with most of the profits.

People who are discussing this issue on the basis of Buy Domains (and a few other big players) vs. everyone else are completely missing the point.

If the US Congress really investigated this situation and looked at the anti-trust implications and the issues of fairness, they would back ICANN. Many of us will (should!) go to our congressmen and say that the anti-WLS forces are mostly just the registrars looking out for their profits. From the standpoint of Joe End User, the people the Congress has the most obligation to protect, he has the best chance of getting a break under WLS. An individual who really wants a name will be willing to buy a subscription before most speculators will.

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by FrontRow
If WLS does happen, I will hold the anti-WLS registrars accountable for it. They had the public's support and they squandered it for greed.

Their timing certainly couldn't have been worse Front Row. I think they had WLS completely on the ropes and could have knocked Verisign out at the October ICANN meeting if they had just held off on this rush to a single selling format for a few more months. They're giving WLS a chance to get back up off the canvas. Unfortunately, once Pool entered the picture the other holdouts had no choice but to fall in line even though it could wind up damaging them in the long run.

I am personally thriving in the current system by working hard at what I do and using all of the available resources. I am not interested in a new system that is going to dramatically reduce my options and hand a monopoly back to a company that has already proven they will grossly abuse their monopoly status. I just hope the anti-WLS forces haven't set in motion a series of events that will result in them blowing the game in the bottom of the 9th inning.

 

[affordablehosting]

Re:
"That's an old wife's tale"

True, it may be some scary story the anti-WLS people made up. However, I have a suggestion that would get rid of that fear right away.

Each person could have only one account to set up WLS's at Verisign. This could be verified by running credit checks on Americans, and requiring faxed proof of ID from everyone else. Each account would be limited to backordering some reasonable number, say 50-500 domains.

Yes, Ultsearch might have everyone in their company and their cousin become a WLS user, but how many employees do they have?

This way, everyone would have a chance to register as many domains as they want without someone coming along and hogging all the good ones.

FYI: Backordering every single current domain, at a cost of $20/WLS, would cost $400 Million.

 

[hiOsilver]

Originally posted by Duke


Their timing certainly couldn't have been worse Front Row. I think they had WLS completely on the ropes and could have knocked Verisign out at the October ICANN meeting if they had just held off on this rush to a single selling format for a few more months. They're giving WLS a chance to get back up off the canvas.

Duke, as for timing, how about if the registrars helped kill WLS and then they start raising the prices? It would not be a monopoly, just an oligopoly that would end up with most of the profits. You and I would be left scrounging for the crumbs while BD and other wealthy players continue to raise the table stakes. All you have to do is look at the prices on NW and Pool. The NW prices are crazy. At today's retail (end user) prices, most of the good names at NW go at or above retail.

If WLS comes to pass, the interesting question is:

What will the WLS landrush look like?

Ideally, it will provide an opportunity for everyone to grab reservations. I would like to see the process be one by one so that BD or anyone else cannot grab a lion's share. And hopefully, no auction by registrars of WLS slots!

 

[hiOsilver]

Originally posted by affordablehosting

FYI: Backordering every single current domain, at a cost of $20/WLS, would cost $400 Million.

By the way, more likely scenario, at least initially:

1% of current domains get WLS at $40/WLS. That would cost $8 million. I doubt that BD or ULT would want all 1%. And, I doubt that they would shell out $8 million anyway. Many people will be stupid and go for names that will never drop. I suspect that BD and Ult already have a contingency plan for how they will purchase their WLS slots. It will probably look like how they have approached Snapbacks, since Snapbacks most closely resemble WLS (or they did until recently when their probability of success started falling so much).

 

[Duke]

Among the problems I have with WLS is that you will have one shot and only one at getting a particular domain. Today you have mutiple chances that do not require you to put money up front a year ahead of time as you will have to do with WLS to have any hope of getting a good name (and in most cases your money will be wasted because the name will never drop).

Until recently if someone had a Snap on a name odds were that you were not going to get it. Thanks to a competitive marketplace, new options have emerged and someone having the Snap slot does not mean you don't have just as good a chance at the name. In fact I beat Snap three times today alone (twice with very cheap NW bids and once with a $60 Pool purchase). I am not spending large amounts of money to acquire domains that are consistently turning profits for me.

Under WLS your options will disappear. If you are not successfully competing against BD and the rest today, you are not going to successfully compete against them under WLS. With their money and research departments they will pick up nearly all of the worthwhile names long before they even enter your field of view and then your chances are gone for good. I have never met a monopoly I liked, including this one. They always create far more problems than they solve.

I'm sure there is a better way to do things than we do them today, but WLS is not it.