closed Do Not Waste Money

[uncle]

11 is nothing. there's people that have hundreds or even thousands which they're never gonna sell.

and they keep registering more. it's like gambler's mentality. you keep investing more to get *something* out. like in that nigerian scam lol

the registrars take advantage of that luring them with new extensions. and they *always* fall for that. even if it's not the same people, it's newbies, that will keep registering for at least 12 months till the first renewal bills start coming in.

I think sgopalam's opinion applies to the vast majority of domainers nowadays. so don't get mad if you're making a profit - it was not about you.

 

[gbrott]

judging from some of the names some of you get appraised on the appraisal board, i understand why you don't make any money.

I'm not an expert, but I have a bunch of names and have made a net profit of a decent amount of money on domains. It is a hobby for me, not my job.

If you know what you are doing you can make $.

 

[IPatlas]

You have an excellent website Donny. I havent poked round everywhere on your site but no wonder this site is making you some money, it's because it has content that makes up for its simplicity.

I imagine you are a web developer not a domain name visionary I think you have to be a visionary to be a domain name investor right now. The USA stock market has dragged down the dotcom sector to a scary slide. I totally agree with you, registering domains right now will not help you (as a web developer) make money. Point well taken!

On the other hand, some here are investing for the long haul. The internet is here to stay and there is no doubt that domains will always be needed by businesses and individuals alike. Some foreign domain markets are (long since the slump started) taking advantage of the current slowdown. SO hang in there and I bet you that you will be rewarded for the rest 10 domains you bought. If you want to remind us what they are I am certainly willing to give you a value outlook for them.

Best of luck and your site is great!

 

Originally posted by gbrott
judging from some of the names some of you get appraised on the appraisal board, i understand why you don't make any money.

I'm not an expert, but I have a bunch of names and have made a net profit of a decent amount of money on domains. It is a hobby for me, not my job.

If you know what you are doing you can make $.

Above is "a non expert's judgement" being agreed by "a no nuffin Chinaman (me)".

 

[sgopalam]

Why all these people making money of the domains never give a few examples from their recently sold domains?

 

[firecracker]

ur right gopalam,these ppl never give examples or samples of domains they've sold.Can anybody give some instances of where they sold domains?

 

Examples of other people's sold domains:

http://www.afternic.com/index.cfm?a=auctions&sa=all&range=res
http://www.greatdomains.com/domains/listings/soldnames.asp
http://www.perfectname.com/

 

[AMERICAR]

If you don't like the domain name game, then try buying lotto tickets.

That way it's all over by the weekend and you can start again, buy some more tickets for the next draw.

At least with a domain name you have a whole Year to decide whether or not to buy another ticket for the next Year.

The guy who registered 'orange.com' didn't do so bad, some body's gotta have a win some time.

If your not in it you can't win it, simple as that!

I-dunno-what-i-is-talking-about.com

 

Lotto ticket paper recycle and domain recycle. Big dumpster biz opportunity.

 

Originally posted by sgopalam
Why all these people making money of the domains never give a few examples from their recently sold domains?

This is indeed a big problem. I think one of the greatest mistakes in the domain industry is the continued practice of keeping the majority of significant domain sales private and unpublicized.

With this situation, the sellers lose, because without good domain sales data, an authoritative gauge of domain name value remains beyond reach.

The buyers lose, because the publicity from high-level sales would add great value to their domain purchase.

It is my sense that successful domain brokers also often keep their sales to themselves in a reflexive effort to limit potential competition.

This current murky state of affairs with regards to domain sales data won't change until either ICANN or Verisign require secondary market transactions to be public, which is unlikely, or domain investors and brokers voluntarily establish a system of reporting and tracking domain sales, which is highly unlikely.

It's too bad, really...I strongly believe everyone--domain sellers and domain buyers--would benefit if we all knew which domains sold for how much.

Transparency is one of the hallmarks of a healthy market.

Miles

 

When you think about it, the people doing the sales already have the data and they benefit from it (and many sellers share the data with other sellers because there is mutual trust and respect involved) - it tends to be people who aren't selling or not selling for large sums that want the data.

Heres my own take on it.

I would always worry that if I talked about sales in here that people with similar names would contact the buyer with their offerings - as we all know some people think "aggressive marketing" is fine, but as a sign of respect for someone who has seen fit to pay a reasonable sum of money with me I wouldn't want them thinking I had been bragging about their purchase.

In addition, several of my purchasers have come back and purchased more domains from me - I wouldn't want to jeopardise that.

 

[buddy]

Originally posted by safesys
When you think about it, the people doing the sales already have the data and they benefit from it (and many sellers share the data with other sellers because there is mutual trust and respect involved) - it tends to be people who aren't selling or not selling for large sums that want the data.

Heres my own take on it.

I would always worry that if I talked about sales in here that people with similar names would contact the buyer with their offerings - as we all know some people think "aggressive marketing" is fine, but as a sign of respect for someone who has seen fit to pay a reasonable sum of money with me I wouldn't want them thinking I had been bragging about their purchase.

In addition, several of my purchasers have come back and purchased more domains from me - I wouldn't want to jeopardise that.

Safesys you said it!! It takes people who actually have some success in this field to know why you don't go off posting names you have sold on forums like this.

My advice to all of you that are still sceptical of finding any good domains from "just deleted" domains' lists, would be that you change strategy. Look at domains that you know have sold in the past. Look at the niche they represented and what keywords did the domain consist of. And most importantly, keep yourselves up to date with all the stuff that goes on in the world of business. The latest tech, what market is hot and what is not etc.

Nothing is easy in life. Neither is this. Keep working and you will get there

 

Safe & Kv, I think you're missing the bigger picture here...

A stealth market in domain names does nothing to help your and everyone elses domain sales, because such stealth keeps the secondary domain market, premium domain prices, and, in general, true domain value, from public view.

For long-time industry participants, the value of good domain names is a settled issue. (Note to newbies: that's good domain names as opposed to just domain names in general.) However, the larger public--and larger business world--is stll very unevenly informed about the value and utility of domain names, particularly as marketing tools.

Having a good, extensive public record of significant domain name sales would benefit domain brokers by making public knowledge how much good domains really sell for, and the reasons behind their value: this would, I believe, sustantially bolster and improve good domain value, and thus increase domain sales in both volume and price point.

Directly related to this is the benefit of making ordinary internet consumers more aware of domain names, which would further attune them to using domains as primary contact points for businesses.

Greater publication of domain name sales would also stimulate media interest, and would stimulate adademic interest, so that more research would be done into the value-added elements of domain names.

All this would serve to raise everyone's profit, including yours. Business may be good for you now, but it would be even better if your buyers bought in an environment of full domain name value realization--an evironment in which the conventional business wisdom fully understands and appreciates domain value. A domain sale you made for $2500 last month could have been $5000, $10,000 or even $20,000, if everyone on the buying end understood just how powerful a marketing tool a good domain name can be, and how this one-time investment becomes the central point of a business' marketing strategy, serving as brand, message, contact and online location.

Worried about others contacting your clients? Every vendor in the world could say the same thing. Unsolicitated communication is a reality of the free market, and in fact is sometimes responsible for good business. They will survive.

You say you have enough data from your own sales? Not unless you're microsoft does such a claim make any real sense. Your sales are a tiny fraction of the total market--you could be substantially underselling and not even know it. Now, I know that you, safesys, in fact do have a good take on the market, and keep in contact with a large domain broker network, but your sales, as I explained above, would be even better if your buyers understood the full value of domain names, which would best be accomplished by creating a good public record of the domain secondary market.

Success tends to be conservative, and many successful domain brokers seem to be worried about "rocking the boat." But this is a classic case of not seeing the forest for the trees. Transparency and good reporting are the universal fundamentals of healthy, robust markets in any economic sector.

Good domain names have real value. We know they work. Making sure the rest of the world is equally informed would benefit every stakeholder--sellers, buyers and users--in the world of domain names and the internet.

Miles

 

[mole]

I am not a domain broker. I have never sold a name. But I like to acquire certain key names for my business namespace in which I find DNF useful in helping me understand the raw sentiments of the secondary market. I use this knowledge to help me swing over names at the lowest possible prices.

I agree with Think that appreciation for domain name value in the marketing equation can be improved for the benefit of all.

However, I have my doubts that transparency of purchase prices will help raise overall value. IMO, I further that if buyers really knew the low low prices that even good names are being exchanged today what with fire-sales and eBay bids that stagnate more than they rise, that would be disasterous.

Everyone, I'm sure, is hoping for a mini resurgence of .com interest and accompanying value somehow, somewhere.

Value is oft driven by hope and optimism. Price transparency of most name sales, at this moment, can only drag the situation down.

 

[Edwin]

My recent experience has been that domains are both being sold AND bought for much, much less than people would expect them to be! I believe that Mole has it correct that if buyers knew the low prices in the current market, it would hurt rather than help that market.

Yes, there are ALWAYS exceptions and there always will be exceptions. But there has never been a time in the short history of the domain name business when "good" names have been sold so cheaply, IMO.

And the less that buyers learn about that, the better (not talking about industry insiders i.e. buy-to-resell folks, but the average company's executives). They still only have the news of high profile sales such as Business.com etc. to go by, and they don't have the depth of experience to know just how drastically things have changed.

 

Hi miles,

Domain sales data is very valuable, as it can show active themes and directions being followed by those who have researched the market and worked at it. This is no different than other industries where they do not publish their clients lists and invoice details to prevent the hard earned data being used by a competitor.

Domain sales negotiations are different to most forms of business as the product is entirely unique and both sellers and buyers ability/desire to pay can be very different.

How could you compare one sale to another? Number of letters, market, market penetration and recognition of the term? Maybe, but what about the sellers desire to sell and the buyers desire to own - how can you factor that into the data?

Also, if by using available data you determined (by subjective interpretion) that the domain was worth $x - that could be irrelevant if no company has the budget or desire to own that name.

To my mind, successful domain sales should be based on a level where both buyer and seller are happy with the agreement. Worrying about whether other people are selling for more or less should not really be a factor - because the variables are so different and luck still plays a very big part.

 

Originally posted by safesys
Worrying about whether other people are selling for more or less should not really be a factor...

Is there any business in the world where sellers aren't interested in what their competitors are selling for?

As for all the various factors that you suggest make establishing a "market value" for domains a near impossiblity...there's are few commodities more difficult to value than fine art. Yet fine art is appraised all the time, fairly accurately at that, and often sells within a certain expected range. The fundamental basis for such appraisals and sales forecasts is previous sales data.

I have yet to hear of a market, other than an illegal one, that benefits from operating in secrecy.

Domain names--good domain names--have real value. The more this becomes public knowledge and conventional business wisdom, the more good domains will be worth, and the more they will be sold.

As for luck...please. One or two events are luck. Repeated success is not luck, it is skill, conscious or otherwise.

Miles

 

Thats true about fine art, but many times they are valued based on other works by that same artist and the collectible nature of art.

I'm not sure how that can be applied to domain names, insomuch as how do you draw comparisons or groupings for domains?

Surely it would be a purely subjective call as to which past sales you used to infer value in a particular domain. That would likely give the same problem of wildly varying appraisals that we have now from the "professional appraisal companies".

 

Originally posted by safesys
Thats true about fine art, but many times they are valued based on other works by that same artist and the collectible nature of art.

I'm not sure how that can be applied to domain names, insomuch as how do you draw comparisons or groupings for domains?

Surely it would be a purely subjective call as to which past sales you used to infer value in a particular domain. That would likely give the same problem of wildly varying appraisals that we have now from the "professional appraisal companies".

Hi Safe

I think we pretty much fundamentally disagree on this issue, although I respect your views. I don't really have anything further to add.

I did start a "connected" thread in the miscellaneous section...take a look and see what you think.

Miles

 

I'd be worried if we did agree on everything miles!

My opinion on this isn't set in stone, I've just relayed my initial thoughts - if you can expand your argument I'd be genuinely interested in thrashing it out, but no problem if you're through with this thread.