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cctld end of new prov. extensions

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katherine

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The extention that will be hit the hardest is Quebec...the .qc has always been very important to "separating" the domain from the rest of the fray...lol...
My thoughts exactly :)

But no official statement from Cira ? Strange.
 
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Irish31

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So is all this talk of CIRA opening up the extension just rumor, or does anyone have any factual evidence to back up this claim? All I really see is CIRA doing away with the provincial extensions (the drawbacks of this have been addressed it seems). If you have a top end generic, or direct geo+strong keyword, it may be worth grabbing a provincial extension to it, otherwise, business as usual.

CIRA opening things up would change the way the game is played for everyone.
 

fwdtech

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First I've heard of it. Nice for CIRA to send out notices to current domain owners!

This has to be the biggest change CIRA can ever make - far bigger than the hidden whois.
The hidden whois had at least 1.5 years of consultation, and then at least another 1.5 years before implementation - at least 3 years total.
This is being done totally off the radar - with NO NOTICE WHATSOEVER.

---------- Post added at 07:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:28 AM ----------

So is all this talk of CIRA opening up the extension just rumor

Thank you for your inquiry.

As you may already know, CIRA is undergoing several structural changes this year. All changes are scheduled to be take effect in October 2010.

While new municipal domain name registrations (such as toronto.ca or city.toronto.on.ca) are still supported, new registrations of general provincial domains (asdf.on.ca) will not be supported. Their system will continue to support existing ("grandfathered") provincial domain names.

We hope the above information is helpful to you. Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any other questions. We will be glad to answer them for you.

Sincerely,
Namespro.ca Team
Register with Confidence
http://www.namespro.ca
 

Irish31

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Ok, so they have confirmed the changes of the provincal extensions. Has anyone heard anything from CIRA that directly relates to the ownership rules? I know CIRA is making noise about "structural changes", however that can represent anything. In the past, I know CIRA has been aganist the opening up of the extension.

Are feelings changing over at HQ? And if so, what does this do to owners of quality .ca names? Does this bring in the rest of the worlds interest and money, or does this bring in the worlds scammers and greedy, self entitled "would be" owners, who will quickly clog up the dispute system and try and pry away every good generic or keyword name they can.

i really have no idea if this would be a net positive change for the extension, but my gut tells me more exposure can only be a good thing in the end. This makes me a bit excited since I have held onto several top names.
 

liberator

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I have had a couple talks with some people at CIRA and from our talks it was a resounding "no" that it won't be opened up, they quoted being mandated by Industry Canada and that their mandate is to keep it exclusive. There is a scheduled change to the Canadian presense requirements in May but that is only a restruction of a couple categories etc.. no big changes. I did hear rumours that CIRA was discussing opening up the extension at the traffic conference though
 

msn

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I didn't say i had inside knowledge. They are simply assumptions of why they decided against this...like many other decisions they will be changing in the future.

.ca's are going back to simplicity... many more changes to come. I look forward to them, it adds value to me and every other domainer.

So why do we need CIRA anymore then? If it will open .ca to anyone and eliminate the geo-structure, which was a founding principle of the Canadian segment of the internet, then why not outsource name delegation to NeuStar or Verisign? Shut it all down and save a fortune!

But if there should be no nb.ca or bc.ca then why have a .ca at all? Why not eliminate all 'geo' or ccTLDs? Why should the UK have .co.uk or France have .fr, or Germany use .de? Why not just .com everything?:rolleyes:
 

Maxwell

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I am glad this is being removed. I don't want to go into the details, but this was done to protect end users.

Lots of slimy people out there and taking advantage of people who don't understand .ca's.

Too true. A great deal of businesses use (businessname).on.ca to make them look like government agencies. The masses wouldn't know any better. The same way that the majority of people think that a .edu domain name translates to "legitimate".
 

whitebark

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So what happens to them when they expire now? Are they perpetually grandfathered, do they default to the .ca if none exists, what if other provincial extensions exist for the same domain still... ?
 

msn

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So what happens to them when they expire now? Are they perpetually grandfathered, do they default to the .ca if none exists, what if other provincial extensions exist for the same domain still... ?

If you do not renew, they vanish, forever - poof!

If there are multiple versions, the last man standing wins.

No TBR for you!:lol:

As to the bad actors using something-official.on.ca to scam people, if CIRA actually enforced its rules and put even a bit of information on its own web site, a good part of the problem could be eliminated.
 

Maxwell

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As to the bad actors using something-official.on.ca to scam people, if CIRA actually enforced its rules and put even a bit of information on its own web site, a good part of the problem could be eliminated.

I disagree. If a consumer saw something-official.on.ca in a newspaper ad, chances are they wouldn't think twice about it. I didn't even know what the CIRA was until I attempted to investigate registering my first .ca domain, which was well after I got into domaining. The average joe hardly knows what a domain name is, never mind the underlying registry for a specific TLD.

---------- Post added at 01:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:31 AM ----------

So what happens to them when they expire now? Are they perpetually grandfathered, do they default to the .ca if none exists, what if other provincial extensions exist for the same domain still... ?

They would have to be grandfathered. Far too many existing email addresses depend on the full domain name to get the message delivered and it would be highly counter-productive to make thousands upon thousands of people change their email addresses (and inform people of such a change, get new business cards, etc.)

IMO, they shouldn't entirely terminate the production of new provincial extensions... they should just require one to apply for the use of it so they can determine whether or not the user has legitimate intentions.
 

fwdtech

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I have had a couple talks with some people at CIRA and from our talks it was a resounding "no" that it won't be opened up, they quoted being mandated by Industry Canada and that their mandate is to keep it exclusive.

There is ZERO upside to this change.
The ONLY thing that I have observed is that TBR's with prov. extensions have less bidding than without. So, the ONLY winner in this change is the TBR registrars.

J:
If CIRA talks to you, then won't you get them to answer the WHY of this change.
They won't talk to me.

---------- Post added at 11:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:53 PM ----------

Too true. A great deal of businesses use (businessname).on.ca to make them look like government agencies.

Do you have any examples?
I'm in the west, so we don't have as many rubes out here.

---------- Post added at 11:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:55 PM ----------

So what happens to them when they expire now? Are they perpetually grandfathered, do they default to the .ca if none exists, what if other provincial extensions exist for the same domain still... ?

They'll be gone forever.
I would imagine if there are no other competing extensions, it'll be .ca in the TBR.
So, kkc.bc.ca for next week, would instead be kkc.ca come October.

If other extensions, same rules as now.
 

msn

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I disagree. If a consumer saw something-official.on.ca in a newspaper ad, chances are they wouldn't think twice about it. I didn't even know what the CIRA was until I attempted to investigate registering my first .ca domain, which was well after I got into domaining. The average joe hardly knows what a domain name is, never mind the underlying registry for a specific TLD.

Then they should use something-official.on.gov.ca as the URL for official government sites!
 

Maxwell

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Then they should use something-official.on.gov.ca as the URL for official government sites!

On the right track. The eye might overlook the presence of the .gov sandwiched between the province code and .ca.

The US federal government does it perfectly with their .gov TLD, which should be available to the Canadian fedgov as well, IMO.
 

Spex

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The US federal government does it perfectly with their .gov TLD, which should be available to the Canadian fedgov as well, IMO.

The feds have their own...gc.ca
 

Maxwell

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The feds have their own...gc.ca

The .gc is second level, while .gov is first level.

I don't think that the federal government's TLD should be dependent on the .ca, being available to all Canadians.
 

msn

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The US federal government does it perfectly with their .gov TLD, which should be available to the Canadian fedgov as well, IMO.

I would be against that.

We have .ca for Canada, and if there are better ways to use it, let us hear them, but to jump into the U.S.-only name space is not one of them.

The .gov root exists for the U.S. government as a defined benefit of sponsoring the Internet in the first place. The UN agencies and other international organizations get to use .int to help delineate the line between each.

Nothing prevents each province from setting up their own sub-domains like *.gov.on.ca and for that matter, going back a while, designations on a provincial level was the entire idea of optimal use of the .ca space.
 

dot-ca

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I agree this is a good thing, and from an SEO standpoint, anyone can create sub-domains and I would rather have the geo in the front, i.e. ontario.beaches.ca (not my domain, sorry for the reference).
 

fwdtech

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I didn't even know what the CIRA was until I attempted to investigate registering my first .ca domain, which was well after I got into domaining. The average joe hardly knows what a domain name is, never mind the underlying registry for a specific TLD.

I agree this is a good thing, and from an SEO standpoint, anyone can create sub-domains and I would rather have the geo in the front, i.e. ontario.beaches.ca (not my domain, sorry for the reference).

I know everyone who pays their $20. is entitled to post their thoughts.
But, a lot of members here have been doing this for 10 years, and thoroughly understand the history of the .ca TLD and its wonderful uniqueness. Many of the more experienced members also do web development, instead of just flipping domains, which therefore provides a wider perspective.

This backdoor change is gutless, wrong, and has ZERO merit. (I'm still waiting for a SINGLE reason to be posted that makes sense.)

For the uninformed cynics that are here:
Consider these 2 nefarious organizations, their provincial counterparts, and their respective .ca reg's:

heartandstroke.ab.ca
heartandstroke.bc.ca
heartandstroke.ca
heartandstroke.mb.ca
heartandstroke.nb.ca
heartandstroke.nf.ca
heartandstroke.ns.ca
heartandstroke.on.ca
heartandstroke.pe.ca
heartandstroke.qc.ca
heartandstroke.sk.ca

girlguides.ca
girlguides.mb.ca
girlguides.nb.ca
girlguides.ns.ca
girlguides.pe.ca
girlguides.sk.ca

These organizations are using the .ca system exactly as it should be used - each prov. group can maintain their identity, their own domain, on their own server, as they can and feel. (Sub-domains cannot accomplish this).

This has worked tremendously since before CIRA.
For some capricious, and apparently top-secret, reason, CIRA is now saying that it's no good.

If the Girl Guides of Alberta wanted to create girlguides.ab.ca, they would not be able.
If the volunteer maintaining girlguides.sk.ca forgets to renew, tough (if you haven't received an email with this scenario - our volunteer forgot to renew - then you haven't been domaining enough).

This is the most absurd change possible, and goes against Industry Canada's mandate.
 
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Spex

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The .gc is second level, while .gov is first level.

I don't think that the federal government's TLD should be dependent on the .ca, being available to all Canadians.

Ok, I see what you mean. But I would be against the Canadian gov adopting the .gov

First, .gov is recognized as the american gov's TLD so I don't think Canadians would associate well with that one when looking for official information. Secondly, we would then have to creat a whole new TLD, the .gouv to capture the french sites. That's why the .gc.ca fits well because it's covers both languages
 

dot-ca

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I know everyone who pays their $20. is entitled to post their thoughts.
But, a lot of members here have been doing this for 10 years...

My god, you think post quantity on dnforum equates to length (and experience) in the domain business... assumption is an unfriendly trait.


Provincial naming has been an end-user disaster right from the onset and the bigger question is what real benefit does it provide to the “average” site owner, not the few who use it as intended?


Although I disagree with opening up dot-ca to other countries, squashing the provincial extension is a positive move towards usability and value.
 
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