How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Embrace Rick Schwartz' vision for America's future

[Raider]

Wow pretty scary. US economy is in real bad shape and heading for more trouble..

That's what happens when we elect a Liberal boob to run our Country, Just wait until inflation kicks in, you ain't seen nothing yet.

---------- Post added at 09:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:39 PM ----------

Change can be a good thing.

It can also be a bad thing, The last 2 years is a testament of that.

 

[Nathan King]

I think as the situation worsens in this country my arguments will be the winning arguments . . . stay tuned

Ron Paul called that the recession was going to occur prior to it occurring. He told people that gold and silver are where they wanted their money (remember this was prior to the financial crisis occurring).

Now, after years of the dollar losing value, people treat it like some sort of hidden wisdom that gold and silver are good places to keep your money in such a market. Ever hear the saying "hindsight is 20/20"?

...Or "a day late and a dollar short"? Silver is already down 23% this month. Is it possible that such an investment became inflated due to hype?

 

[Bill F.]

Silver is already down 23% this month. Is it possible that such an investment became inflated due to hype?

Interesting that one newsletter I read (Casey Research) called this drop in the silver prices well ahead of time. They also went on to say it would be a buying opportunity, as they expect silver to climb much further still. Sure it's possible that gold/silver prices will become inflated, but considering we are facing an unprecedented fall in the dollar and other currencies, that may still be way ahead of us. And the social unrest that often follows economic collapse hasn't even begun to kick in.

 

[lordbyroniv]

Interesting that one newsletter I read (Casey Research) called this drop in the silver prices well ahead of time. They also went on to say it would be a buying opportunity, as they expect silver to climb much further still. Sure it's possible that gold/silver prices will become inflated, but considering we are facing an unprecedented fall in the dollar and other currencies, that may still be way ahead of us. And the social unrest that often follows economic collapse hasn't even begun to kick in.

Yes, once the social unrest kicks in . . . look out. This will be one for the history books. And yes, the pull back in silver is a buying opportunity. Nothing goes straight up and silver at $50 was parabolic. Consolidation is important.

---------- Post added at 07:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 PM ----------

Ron Paul called that the recession was going to occur prior to it occurring. He told people that gold and silver are where they wanted their money (remember this was prior to the financial crisis occurring).

Now, after years of the dollar losing value, people treat it like some sort of hidden wisdom that gold and silver are good places to keep your money in such a market. Ever hear the saying "hindsight is 20/20"?

...Or "a day late and a dollar short"? Silver is already down 23% this month. Is it possible that such an investment became inflated due to hype?

I don't profess to have hidden wisdom. I first got into hard assets in 2000. Mostly art and gold.

When I saw the dollar break the buck in money market funds in 2008 due to Lehman, I moved even more money into hard assets - silver, gold and blue chip domain names.

The ULTIMATE collapse of the USD is not an "IF" event. It is simply "WHEN"

 

[Nathan King]

And the social unrest that often follows economic collapse hasn't even begun to kick in.

The ULTIMATE collapse of the USD is not an "IF" event. It is simply "WHEN"

This type of pessimistic thinking is unhealthy and often times self-destructive. It is unfortunate that the mainstream media is setting this kind of tone with their one-sided reporting and slanted presentations. Things really aren't as bad as the mainstream media is making them out to be, and unlike what many people believe, we are not on the verge of an economic collapse. It's a possibility, but not a likely one IMO.

They also went on to say it would be a buying opportunity, as they expect silver to climb much further still. Sure it's possible that gold/silver prices will become inflated, but considering we are facing an unprecedented fall in the dollar and other currencies, that may still be way ahead of us.

It would not surprise me if silver recovered from this dip and went higher still, especially if the media keeps reporting that we are on the verge of a total economic and societal breakdown.

One factor in the price of silver that hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet is China and the Chinese economy. A sluggish Chinese economy could drastically reduce the demand for silver. Worth keeping an eye on if you're heavily invested in silver.

 

[lordbyroniv]

This type of pessimistic thinking is unhealthy and often times self-destructive. It is unfortunate that the mainstream media is setting this kind of tone with their one-sided reporting and slanted presentations. Things really aren't as bad as the mainstream media is making them out to be, and unlike what most people believe, we are not on the verge of an economic collapse. It's a possibility, but not a likely one IMO.

Then you tell me how the U.S. government plans to pay the $14 Trillion deficit and makes good on our off balance sheet $60 Trillion medicare, medicaid and social security obligations - while we are running 1.5 Trillion annual deficits !!!!

Please do not tell me that you believe this Keynsian experiment gone wild by the Bernank printing MORE MONEY out of thin air is really gonna work

We will either have massive deflation or massive inflation and most likely BOTH

 

[Raider]

Then you tell me how the U.S. government plans to pay the $14 Trillion deficit and makes good on our off balance sheet $60 Trillion medicare, medicaid and social security obligations - while we are running 1.5 Trillion annual deficits !!!!

Please do not tell me that you believe this Keynsian experiment gone wild by the Bernank printing MORE MONEY out of thin air is really gonna work

We will either have massive deflation or massive inflation and most likely BOTH

I agree with what your saying, the future of our economy looks very bleak... Every Obama's budget ADDS TRILLIONS to our debt.

The CBO estimates Obama's budget will add $9.5 Trillion to the debt by 2021, that's 10 years away; http://majorityleader.gov/blog/2011/03/cbo-obama-budget-adds-95-trillion-to-the-debt.html

But not to worry, Obama says he will cut the debt by $4 Trillion over 12 years. http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/13/news/economy/obama_debt_plan/index.htm

 

[Nathan King]

Then you tell me how the U.S. government plans to pay the $14 Trillion deficit and makes good on our off balance sheet $60 Trillion medicare, medicaid and social security obligations - while we are running 1.5 Trillion annual deficits !!!!
...
We will either have massive deflation or massive inflation and most likely BOTH

We are running up a massive debt due to continued budget deficits. But where are you getting the idea that a large federal debt is going to lead to economic collapse? According to the World Economic Outlook Database, 2011, the current debt-to-GDP ratio in the US is 91.55%. This is below the historic highs of >120% in the mid-late '40's (source).

There is no doubt that the US and others need to get their spending under control, but the correlation between the federal deficit and slowed economic recovery is one that has been looked at closely by economists. And no correlation has been found, short of a poorly done analysis that has been largely proven false.

 

[lordbyroniv]

We are running up a massive debt due to continued budget deficits. But where are you getting the idea that a large debt is going to lead to economic collapse? According to the World Economic Outlook Database, 2011, the current debt-to-GDP ratio in the US is 91.55%. This is below the historic highs of >120% in the mid-late '40's (source).

There is no doubt that the US and others need to get their spending under control, but the correlation between the federal deficit and slowed economic recovery is one that has been looked at closely by economists. And no correlation has been found.

Oh my

I am truly speechless

Of course DEFICITS MATTER

Comparing our debt to gdp to the 1940's is a faulty comparison. In the mid 1940's we were a MANUFACTURING and PRODUCING nation. Now we are a DEBTOR and a CONSUMING nation.

The difference is huge. We can't grow our way out of our problem.

And our debt is much larger and interest compounds much faster.

Printing more debt. to pay off the interest on the old debt. is just going to make the problem that much worse

Debt grows exponentially until it collapses on itself

There are many in Washington D.C. that think like you

You will see. . . Stay Tuned

This will end badly

Mark my word

 

[Nathan King]

You will see. . . Stay Tuned

This will end badly

Mark my word

Keep living in fear...it's good for you, and bad for those that wish to control.

</sarcasm>

 

[Raider]

I agree it's not all doom and gloom, The Federal Government has a TON of assets, we have over a Million Government buildings, 600 million acres of land and a Fort that houses over 147 million ounces of Gold.

Worst case scenario, we start liquidating and pay down the debt that our reckless leaders in DC racked up.... $4 TRILLION of which came from Obama alone.

I would start with the easy stuff, Sell off as many Government buildings as possible and layoff everyone who occupies them... Forcing them back into the private sector so they can produce instead of consume.

 

[Bill F.]

Keep living in fear...it's good for you, and bad for those that wish to control.

</sarcasm>

It's not fear, and it's not self-destructive pessimism either, as you said earlier. Being in denial would be self-destructive. One can agree that government and currency are headed for the sh*tter without being all gloom and doom. I see a bright side to it. The only way to stop a increasingly oppressive and overreaching government is to starve it. Finally the government will have to fold up all but their essential services, and we can hand power back to the people who do make a country great - those who work and produce. I am worried about what will happen while it all goes down, though. There's really no predicting how people and nations will react.

 

[Nathan King]

Like I said, many governments in the world need to get their spending under control. Is an economic collapse necessary for this to happen? I hope not. From my research, it doesn't seem to me that we are anywhere near the tipping point yet. It is a long-term issue.

Governments' access to huge amounts of credit is widening the gap between developing economies and "advanced economies" such as the United States (source):

Fiscal deficits and public debt are very high in many advanced economies. Although policy became much less stimulatory in 2010, real GDP growth picked up, suggesting a handoff from public to private demand. For 2011, fiscal consolidation is expected to be modest in advanced economies. As a result, the adjustment required to achieve prudent debt levels by 2030 remains very large. Fiscal adjustment will be larger in economies with high external surpluses than in economies with high deficits, which is consistent with widening global imbalances.

The rich get richer, the poor get poorer. And yes, America & friends are on the winning side of that equation. Not that it was ever a level playing field.

 

[Nathan King]

and we can hand power back to the people who do make a country great - those who work and produce.

Most people are followers. What we have in America is a shortage of good leaders. I'm talking about real leaders of the people, not politicians.

The people still have the power to peacefully take their government back, they just need to be informed. It's much bigger than republicans vs. democrats at this point. Presidents change, but it's the same corporations running Washington throughout the decades. Of course, the internet is a recent phenomenon, and the full impact of such a massive exchange of information is yet to be felt.

How about publicly funding political campaigns, while putting an end to career politicians? Not my idea but I like it.

 

[Gerry]

...putting an end to career politicians? Not my idea but I like it.

Something that I have been in favor of for decades.

I really don't think this country was based on individuals making a career sitting in the Congress.

Since the first Congress of 1789, there has only been a tad over 1900 people elected to the Senate. Of the perhaps billions of lives to have lived in this country from that day until now, we have only been represented by 1900 people in the Senate. It is hard to imagine that we were duly represented and the interests of the people have been forefront in the nearly 222 years of Congress. It would be interesting to see some statistician go through population records and provide a contrast in terms of what percentage those 1900+ people represent in comparison to total population for all of those years.

To serve in Congress was at one time an honor. Today, it is road to riches.

 

[lordbyroniv]

To serve in Congress was at one time an honor. Today, it is road to riches.

hear, hear

 

[south]

layoff everyone who occupies them... Forcing them back into the private sector so they can produce instead of consume.

Amen Sister

 

[Raider]

Something that I have been in favor of for decades.

I really don't think this country was based on individuals making a career sitting in the Congress.

Since the first Congress of 1789, there has only been a tad over 1900 people elected to the Senate. Of the perhaps billions of lives to have lived in this country from that day until now, we have only been represented by 1900 people in the Senate. It is hard to imagine that we were duly represented and the interests of the people have been forefront in the nearly 222 years of Congress. It would be interesting to see some statistician go through population records and provide a contrast in terms of what percentage those 1900+ people represent in comparison to total population for all of those years.

To serve in Congress was at one time an honor. Today, it is road to riches.

Be careful, your starting to sound like a member of the Tea Party.

The reason they keep getting re-elected is because #1, Politicians control redistricting, #2, Unions heavily influence the outcomes in our elections with Democrats being the biggest benefactors.

If every state had a independent redistricting commission and Unions were less influential by means of reform, we would see a lot less incumbents re-elected.

 

[Dynamic1]

Then you tell me how the U.S. government plans to pay the $14 Trillion deficit and makes good on our off balance sheet $60 Trillion medicare, medicaid and social security obligations - while we are running 1.5 Trillion annual deficits !!!!

Please do not tell me that you believe this Keynsian experiment gone wild by the Bernank printing MORE MONEY out of thin air is really gonna work

We will either have massive deflation or massive inflation and most likely BOTH

We need to even the playing field with China and a few other countries. The American worker is 3 times more productive than the Chinese worker then add the fuel wasted to ship all of that stuff here.
We need to invest heavy in Tech, Energy and start making high quality high tech products. Recently a Neyodynium mine reopened near Vegas they mine the rare earth magnets needed for Electric Cars trains hard drives ETC...
It had been closed since the 80s. There was something about a Train that we needed to build and China now is one of the only places that mines these magnets. They wanted us to build a factory there to get the magnets.
The tesla roadster uses well an AC Induction Motor due to not being able to get the supply needed for Neyodynium.

AC Induction:
+ Average efficiency possibly higher (magnetic and conduction losses can be traded off)
+ Better for performance (losses don't necessarily grow with size)
- Control more difficult (maybe more development costs)

Permanent Magnet / AC Synchronous / DC Brushless:
+ Peak efficiency higher (Unity power factor 96% vs 85% for induction)
+ Rotor cooling easier
- Magnets expensive/supply constrained (e.g. China's control)

So anyways IMO we need to get back in the game here and many other areas to have a shot at chipping away at that deficit.

 

[Nathan King]

The American worker is 3 times more productive than the Chinese

Americans are among the laziest people I've ever met. They also feel as if they are the most deserving people, which causes further declines in productivity as they stand around and complain. It's a recent phenomenon, and I blame the hippies.

I'm kidding of course but there is some truth to what I say. Just look at the work ethic of immigrants compared to the work ethic of most Americans nowadays.