Premium .com Names!! Fraudulent.com ; Indexed.com And More!!

[GiantDomains]

>> Moved to Legal Issues until terms/proof can be sorted out.

 

[jberryhilljberryhill is verified member.]

I really don't care if people trust or don't trust

Then you are complaining about... what?

 

[namedropper]

I just have to chime in here that I don't trust a lot of domainers, because they've given me reasons not to trust them, but I trust Beachie implicitly. He has in the past told me about dropping names that worked well with ones I already had for no compensation at all, just to be nice.

I've seen him on these boards and others for several years and have never heard anyone say anything but good things about him. (Well, occasionally scammers have tried to insult him, but since I knew they were liars from my previous dealings with them, they're accusations just made it obvious that Beachie was the kind of person scammers hate.)

I also remember him opening a thread about the theft of these names before interdot ever showed up to try to sell them.

In other words, not that it needs to be said after all the other posts here saying the same thing, if Beachie says interdot stole the names, then it's obvious that he did. His posts with their condescending words and lack of any attempted defense have done nothing but reinforce that conclusion.

 

[Theo]

What's the official decision on this?

 

[GT Web]

I think interdot should be banned immediatly and Beachie should decide whather to file a lawsuit...

of course, in a perfect world interdot would admit his mistake and returns the domain....but that seems highly unlikely at this point

 

[Domagon]

Being this is now in Legal forum ... I'll throw my few cents worth in ...

Personally, when doing transactions, I generally *avoid* all the following:

1. I avoid Ebay listed domains
(many are stolen, scammers, etc)

2. I avoid PayPal transactions
(lack of consumer protections)

3. I avoid Partial payments.
(I'm not a financing company LOL!)

Ok, to the issue at hand ... just because there's no hardpaper written contract doesn't mean one doesn't exist...

Assuming what beachie wrote is true, then the buyer is obligated to make the second payment ... why? Because the buyer's ACTION ALONE is a contract ... once the buyer made the 1st payment, the buyer also became responsible for the 2nd payment - it's either all or none.

If the buyer agreed to a package price of $4000 and has yet only paid $1500, then they still own the seller $2500 for the remainder ... simple as that.

Of course if this situation was that simple, this thread wouldn't be so long...

So here's a possible solution:

1. Buyer returns the 5 domains back to the seller FIRST!

2. Buyer requests a PayPal *refund* for the amount; Seller DO NOT PayPal the money back directly - require the buyer to use the PayPal refund option or otherwise you could find yourself getting hit with a $1500 chargeback eventually - soon that nonsense too many times

Ron

 

[Theo]

I believe that the transaction occured about 6 months ago but was only brought up now because interdot registered recently with DNF and listed those domains. Chris mentioned this to me several months ago for a particular reason that I don't want to share. Apparently interdot thinks he's well beyond and above any obligation to offer an explanation and he continues to post here on DNF.

 

[Domagon]

6 months ago ... well that simpifies the return process somewhat ... basically the buyer sells the 5 domains back to the seller via escrow.com for $1500.

Regardless of the details, or who is right, wrong, etc, reputation is important in this business ... interdot would likely do better to return the domains, but ultimately the decision is his. Hope both parties are able to work it out.

Ron

 

[seeker]

At this point though, most people know interdot as interdot.
Thats why its important I think to go to the whois, get a good look at his name and details, and add them to your black list so you dont deal with him ever again anywhere.
He can easily change his username, he can try to sell at ebay, other forums etc...
So you need to know who he is.

 

[GT Web]

here is his whois info:



Antypas, Gerasimos (NIC-9693) [email protected]
IDN - InterDotNetwork
Ellis Ave. 26 , 4th Floor
Athens
Alimos, GR
17455
Phone: 9839595



I find it quite amusing one of the stolen names he is trying to sell is Fraudulent.com

 

[HOWARD]

All of this could have been avoided if the parties had used an attorney to draw the transfer agreement, hold the funds in escrow and maintained control over the domains until payment was made in full.

 

[Theo]

All of this could have been avoided if the parties had used an attorney to draw the transfer agreement, hold the funds in escrow and maintained control over the domains until payment was made in full.

Unless all along the buyer's intention had been to defraud the seller.

 

[jberryhilljberryhill is verified member.]

Unless all along the buyer's intention had been to defraud the seller.

But that's the point of having a third party handle BOTH the payment and the domain transfer. That's the way Howard does it, that's how Moniker does it, that's how Ari does it, and that's how I do it. Maybe it was the buyer's intention to defraud the seller, or maybe the temptation arose later during the transaction. But given the economic impracticality of enforcing most domain sales contracts between two parties, you have to be prepared to be stung once in a while or use an escrow service which handles both sides of the transaction.

 

[MonteMonte is verified member.]

Unfortunately the Seller moved the domains into the buyer's account before receiving full payment - based on trust. Neither party used us for escrow....just kinda made a deal without anything formal....as we always recommend.

I do not know anything more than what both parties have told me and they are both Moniker customers.

 

[David G]

For any amount more than say about $1000 (involving someone not very well know to the forum) I would strongly suggest you use the services of a trusted attorney like John Berryhill or an escrow service.

I do NOT suggest using Escrow.com. Reason is that in the past I used them and they ended-up transferring the name to me which showed up in Whois under my name but without first being assured the seller would get paid (perhaps it was an error, not sure). Of course I did pay but I was amazed they did that.

P.S. Regarding the above, I could have easily gone to the registrars site and with my passwrd and control transferred the name elsewhere, etc. and the seller may not have been paid.

 

[Theo]

I've used Escrow.com repeatedly for more than 20 transactions and without any problems.

 

[Beachie]

Yes, the transaction took place five months ago - I did start a thread at the time, but didn't mention the exact names. To be honest, I don't hold much hope in getting the domains back except via a court order. It never ceases to amaze me that, for the sake of $900, someone is willing to whore their reputation.

I've been involved in at least a thousand domain transactions without any form of escrow and only ever had two problems - this one, and one with traffic scammer vsesco/e=mc2/traffik/vic santoro which escrow wouldn't have helped anyway. The vast majority of domainers are honest and in such a small community it doesn't pay to be anything else.

Just out of interest, I notice all the bids on his private eBay auction disappeared. Presumably he didn't want to pay the eBay fees on his own $30,000 winning bid..

Thanks to all those who replied and offered advice and kind words - it's much appreciated.

Cheers,
Chris

 

[Domagon]

...I do NOT suggest using Escrow.com. Reason is that in the past I used them and they ended-up transferring the name to me which showed up in Whois under my name but without first being assured the seller would get paid (perhaps it was an error, not sure). Of course I did pay but I was amazed they did that.

P.S. Regarding the above, I could have easily gone to the registrars site and with my passwrd and control transferred the name elsewhere, etc. and the seller may not have been paid.

Sounds to me that the seller didn't follow escrow.com's instructions ... they make very clear to the seller NOT to transfer the domain until the funds are secured by escrow.com.

Escrow.com itself works as advertised; they themselves have nothing to do with the actual domain name transfer.

Some escrow services will also hold the domain name(s) in escrow - in theory, that should be even better ... however, in reality, due to the nature of domain transfers, the escrow.com method (and that used by many other escrow services) is a good compremise of safety and speed - my average turnaround with escrow.com is under 48 hours ... and that's for all size sales from $xxx to $xxx,xxx.

Lastly, I'm curious as to what escrow services you use / recommend ...

Thanks!

Ron

 

[David G]

I've used Escrow.com repeatedly for more than 20 transactions and without any problems.

I am confident most transactions work well and are safe it is just that one transaction with escrow.com that had me alarmed. Murphy's Law in that was the only transaction I have been involved in there, 1 out of 1 was a poor experience.

P.S. Yes, it may have been the sellers fault, not sure about the chain of events as that was 3 or 4 yrs ago. I probably should not have mentioned it.

 

[namedropper]

Heh, yeah, sometimes the people using escrow.com drop the ball. I was trying to transfer a name once to a company whose contact didn't know what info to give me for the whois or anything else, like what registrar they wanted it at or anything, and when escrow asked them if they wanted to release the funds they did. A month later ( a number of important people had been on vacation it seems) they were telling me that they now finally figured it all out and that they'd appreciate my prompt response to make the changes, but then tossed in that it was in my best interest to do so because "you'd get the money faster." Faster than already having been paid three weeks before? But of course I made the changes as soon as I got the email.