100 people in the world own 2 million domains

[Chaiki]

Chaiki, do you have the email addresses for these top 20 companies?

Maybe, they can buy my domain names for a million bucks to add to their huge domain portfolios.

Just google them man; geez people are lazy - and ugly by the look of your site

 

[sasquatch]

One quick (hypothetical) case study about generic names, power of the audience, and all that good stuff:

Let's say we take one typical generic domain... say Shampoo-dot-com. Since it has 239 in Ovt. we could safely guestimate that it gets about high xx to low xxx (at worse) to about mid xxx (at best) visitors per day. Currently Digimedia has a lovely landing page there with links to advertisers. Quick check of Overture bid tool reveals the maximum bid of $0.65 cents for term "hair shampoo", and that advertiser is indeed placed highest at Shampoo-dot-com (under "hair shampoo") We all know that Digimedia gets certain % of that depending on their particular arrangements with Overture. For the sake of argument, let's say they get $0.25 per click. We also know that only certain percentage of people click on these links. We'll give Digimedia credit for having such an inviting page, so let's assume their click rates are higher than avg. Say... I don't know.. 5%, or even 10%? Anyway, we'll then take 5% of 100 uniques and that would equal about 5 clicks @ .25 per click=$1.50 per day (at worst!) or lets assume the best; 10% of 500 uniques equals about 50 clicks @ .25 per click=$12.50. So say Shampoo-dot-com currently makes anywhere between $2 and $15 bucks per day. So let's average that out $2+$15=$17:2=$8.50 per day on average. But let's err on the optimistic side, let's say it averages $10 bucks per day, and that makes it $10x365=$3,650 per year. Let's be even more optimistic and assume Shampoo-dot-com makes 5k per year. Heck, for the sake of argument let's go crazy and say 10k per year. So overall, we could assume that a nice, generic name such as Shampoo-dot-com is probably and realistically worth anywhere between 30k to 80k on the current aftermarket.

Now, let's take WhatIsMyIp-dot-com for example. A few years ago that name was worth $0.00. Until very recently it was still worth $0.00 since it didn't make any money (as it contained no ads, or affiliate links of any sort whatsoever). However, having such a massive traffic ("audience power") the name attracted a top bid of over 360k in the open market. Moreover, that name currently contains adsense etc. so we could surely assume it makes many, many, many times more than Shampoo-dot-com does purely on the strength of its sheer eyeball numbers.

So the point of the story is, even if your ugly made up domain makes no money whatsoever (and WhatIsMyIp-dot-com made no money until it got sold) it could still theoretically be more valuable than 90% of generics outthere. Yet, a few years ago, or even couple years ago... if given choice to chose between Shampoo-dot-com and WhatIsMyIp-dot-com - virtually all of us here would have chosen former, rather than the latter. So the power is not necessarily in the hands of current revenue numbers, but in many other factors primarily those of the traffic kind. So that's why I say that the biggest typosquters (or non-generics with traffic) might be more powerful and worthy than the medium quality portfolios. But we all knew that, right?

Oh what a tangled web we weave.

 

[mike031]

i am sure a generic domain like shampoo.com and others similar convert at 50%+

 

[Chaiki]

So the point of the story is, even if your ugly made up domain makes no money whatsoever (and WhatIsMyIp-dot-com made no money until it got sold) it could still be more valuable than 90% of generics outthere. Yet, a few years ago, or even couple years ago... if given choice to chose between Shampoo-dot-com and WhatIsMyIp-dot-com - virtually all of us here would have chosen former, rather than the latter. So the power is not necessarily in the hands of current revenue numbers, but in many other factors. But we all knew that, right?

Oh what a tangled web (<no pun) we weave.

I would still pick shampoo.com. I think it is more valuable because whatismyip.com is only popular until whatsmyip.com rolls out a competing service, or until myip.google.com gets born to compete. Whatismyip.com has to keep people happy, whereas shampoo.com has to do nothing. The price of the visits keeps rising, there is a brandability factor and the underlying descriptive real-estate value is constant. 80% of the visits to shampoo.com are looking for shampoo and are predisposed to clicking if there is a relevant site there (10% are domain speculators and 10% looking for the 70's Warren Beaty movie). 100% of the people going to whatismyip.com are lloking for their IP address and then to move on, without clicking on a damn thing. I agree with the underlying point, you are trying to make but those are the wrong two names/sites to compare.

 

[sasquatch]

i am sure a generic domain like shampoo.com and others similar convert at 50%+

What makes you a believer?

 

[mike031]

What makes you a believer?

just from experience...... besides, anybody who has a decent ppc portfolio made up of generics all have conversion rates of 50%+

 

[sasquatch]

I agree with the underlying point, you are trying to make but those are the wrong two names/sites to compare.

Yes, the IP name depends on the inbound links, as well as Google position as-is, but Shampoo also depends on PPC as-is.

And yes I agree the comparisons between the two names are a bit out of whack, however the underlying point is not. The question becomes whether Shampoo-dot-com is able to sell itself for $360k in the year of 2005? Ironically, with the proceeds of his IP name sale, the seller could have purchased several domains like Shampoo-dot-com today.

I would still pick shampoo.com.

So what you're saying above^ makes no sense at all.

 

[Chaiki]

Ironically, with the proceeds of his IP name sale, the seller could have purchased several domains like Shampoo-dot-com today.

That would have been a smart trade, if it could be made. Having tried to buy a name like that recently the multiples are going up up up from as recently as 6 months ago.

 

[sasquatch]

That would have been a smart trade, if it could be made. Having tried to buy a name like that recently the multiples are going up up up from as recently as 6 months ago.

But that Ip name was sold more than six months ago :-D

just from experience...... besides, anybody who has a decent ppc portfolio made up of generics all have conversion rates of 50%+

So you're saying even those ugly looking pages at DS or ULT convert at 50%+ (ULT had 17 million visitors in November 04, so does that meant 8.5+ million clicks for ULT in that month alone?), but if one had sexy landers like Digimedia the rates could skyrocket even higher, possibly even double? d

 

[Chaiki]

But that Ip name was sold more than six months ago :-D

Sasquatch, you are comparing a stand-alone name to a business. Whatismyip.com was a business - albeit a poorly run one. That business is subject to a downturn in the form of competition, which will occur once a smart competitor realises the potential for traffic/profits. Shampoo.com and other parked names like it are already chugging along at their slowest possible speed. You can not beat them down any further, so there is significantly more latent value in the generic. Yes the business sold for 300k+ but I will bet digimedia will not sell shampoo.com for 380k .

 

[sasquatch]

Sasquatch, you are comparing a stand-alone name to a business. Whatismyip.com was a business - albeit a poorly run one.

How was that a business, and Shampoo isn't??

...so there is significantly more latent value in the generic.

But that and/or other generics could have been bought with the sale of that one non-generic. We're going in circles here.

I will bet digimedia will not sell shampoo.com for 380k .

Well, that's an idea! Have you tried it yet? :-D

 

[mike031]

doesn't really matter which ppc it is, generics convert everywhere and very well.

ult had a load of names.....i dont even remember the exact setup but i don't think he had 50k generics that could be compared to those names of digimedia, ie; shampoo com - recipes com - etc.



digimedia can and will hold out until that one buyer comes around with a nice cash offer which will satisfy them... don't think anything below 500k will do justice.... maybe 1mil they will consider selling.

all they need is just one..... one big fish to reel in, and it will come to them. but for the time being, their "business" is alive and well thanks to ppc..... payouts are sweet indeed.

 

[sasquatch]

don't think anything below 500k

I fail to comprehend why would someone pay 500k (or God forbid 1 mil for an audience of 100-500 per day and an income of 10k (or even 20k) per year? Where's any sort of smart business logic or any sense there? And what happens if PPC industry shambles and folds? How do you valuate the meager couple hundred uniques per day then?

 

[Chaiki]

But that and/or other generics could have been bought with the sale of that one non-generic. We're going in circles here.

There is an important distinction so I will repeat:

Whatismyip.com is getting it's traffic by doing something (through the business of returning ip addresses to visitors), Shampoo.com, a parked name, is getting all its traffic from being shampoo.com. Generic type-in visits. (unless digimedia has done seo work on it) .

They are both 'businesses' in the sense that they are selling traffic but they are clearly different (you are comparing apples to oranges).

Saying you would pick whatismyip.com as a domain over shampoo.com you are saying, there is real sustainable value in the fluff that is the business at whatismyip.com. I predict nobody will be talking about whatismyip.com in five years, without alot of hard work and innovation on the part of it's owner (remember ****edcompany.com .. where are they now?). Shampoo.com will have cachet/sustainable traffic with or without work.

The fact that somebody paid 360k for unsustainable trafficflow is moot. If you can get generics for less, then 'that' is the "field of opportunity" in October of 2005. Let us all get as many as we can and have a hearty laugh about it in five years as we hark back to this time of easy getting.

 

[sasquatch]

Saying you would pick whatismyip.com as a domain over shampoo.com you are saying, there is real sustainable value in the fluff that is the business at whatismyip.com. I predict nobody will be talking about whatismyip.com in five years, without alot of hard work and innovation on the part of it's owner (remember ****edcompany.com .. where are they now?). Shampoo.com will have cachet/sustainable traffic with or without work.

The fact that somebody paid 360k for unsustainable trafficflow is moot. If you can get generics for less, then 'that' is the "field of opportunity" in October of 2005. Let us all get as many as we can and have a hearty laugh about it in five years as we hark back to this time of easy getting.

The facts speak for themselves:

February 2005:
WhatIsMyIp.com 386+k

---

July 2005:
Lunch.com 100k
2976 ovt.

August 2005:
Uruguay.com 175k
1285 ovt.

September 2005:
Lofts.com 100k
378 ovt.

Total ovt. 4,829 (vs. 239 for Shampoo-dot-com)
Total paid: 375k


With the proceeds from the sale of WhatIsMyIp.com one could have bought, among other things, those three fine virtual properties above (and have some cash to spare for an all-indulging trip to Vegas).

So, the practical question becomes would you rather have Uruguay.com+Lunch.com+Lofts.com or Shampoo-dot-com?

Everything else is an empty talk: coulda, woulda, shoulda, mighthavebeena, mightwillbeena...

 

[Chaiki]

With the proceeds from the sale of WhatIsMyIp.com one could have bought, among other things, those three fine virtual properties above (and have some cash to spare for an all-indulging trip to Vegas).

So do that. Buy a business so you can make money to reinvest in something else. That is the American Way. You asked what name I would choose and I'd pick the one with staying power. The more successful whatismyip.com gets, the harder it will be to sustain that traffic as competitors circle in. Remember to factor that backend slide into the equation - it could come tomorrow it could come in 5 years.

 

[QuantumBeam]

:approve: wow..........

 

[sasquatch]

So do that. Buy a business so you can make money to reinvest in something else. That is the American Way. You asked what name I would choose and I'd pick the one with staying power. The more successful whatismyip.com gets, the harder it will be to sustain that traffic as competitors circle in. Remember to factor that backend slide into the equation - it could come tomorrow it could come in 5 years.

Chaiki you are wiggling a bit and are actually worry me with your refusal to see the actual facts. Let me put it this way for you,

what would you rather have today:

Uruguay.com+Lunch.com+Lofts.com

or

Shampoo-dot-com

?

 

[financialtraffic]

Buying large portfolios just for parking is NOT the way to go. It is a waste of money and I believe strongly that type-in traffic will be more and more cannibalized by search engines or the logical gains of end-users over time. Buying a few high quality domains for development is a much, much better investment.

Even so, the best investments have been and always will be unique ideas marketed with unique brands. Generic domains are a drop of water in an ocean of revenue compared to businesses that have a brand/unique domain name.

Look at just a few of the top companies, eBay, Google, Yahoo, Amazon... just one of those companies crushes all of the PPC portfolios together. How do I know this? Easy. The big players ARE PPC. They OWN it. They are the ones who are directly or indirectly doing the sales.

Generic domain owners will always be just a middleperson. No smart advertiser is ever going to pay a major cut of their revenue to the middleperson. It will always remain a pittance.

BUT, if you start to develop and grow your own niche out of your generic domain, you have a chance to be much more than just a middleperson. Those companies who have 1000s and 1000s of generic domains that they never touch except to sell them, are just diluting their own resources.

Show me a generic domain that earns a lot of money on PPC each day, and I'll show you 10 unique non generic domains that earn 100 times that amount each.

Chaiki you are wiggling a bit and are actually worry me with your refusal to see the actual facts. Let me put it this way for you,

what would you rather have today:

Uruguay.com+Lunch.com+Lofts.com

or

Shampoo-dot-com

?

 

[Chaiki]

Chaiki you are wiggling a bit and are actually worry me with your refusal to see the actual facts. Let me put it this way for you,

what would you rather have today:

Uruguay.com+Lunch.com+Lofts.com

or

Shampoo-dot-com

?

I would obviously rather have the three than Shampoo.com alone. Obviously more power in the combo of three.