For Sale Today's TBR

[stewie]

Wzhxvy - why should Wednesday's drop have been reversed if according to CIRA nothing was technically wrong? The fault was with the registrar(s) and not the registry itself. We've all ordered domains at registrars who at one time or another failed to connect to the tbr system on a given week - never did CIRA run it again for them. The rules/regulations/requirements were clear and the majority of registrars got it right and had more than ample time to ensure they would before Wednesday.

If this was a technical issue with CIRA - that would not have been fair to the registrars, but that is not the case here. IMO Wednesday's TBR session was valid and CIRA should release the domains as they were so we can all move on.

Totally agree , until Cira can show us detailed proof that there was a flaw or a glitch this auction should stand. If they cancel this auction based on a glitch or mistake on a registrar's part then they have set a precedent case that could be used next week by a smaller registrar and the following week etc etc...we might never have another clean TBR drop again if the standard to cancel doesn't start and end with Cira's own system. JMO

 

[hugegrowth]

It looks like CIRA is claiming that 3 to 7 registrars got it wrong because information that CIRA put out could have been misleading to these registrars.

So it wasn't completely these registrars that screwed up, it was because of CIRA's instructions that may not have been clear.

Not saying I agree, just trying to see what they are claiming.

When they say 3-7 registrars, are these completely separate businesses not controlled by one main company, or are these all Pool related registrars? That's what I think a lot of people would like to know.

If it was like Namespro, MyID and Pool that had this same problem I might see the point of cancelling TBR, but so far we don't know of any registrar other than Pool that had this problem.

Something just doesn't seem right - I hope CIRA can further clarify what went on to the satisfaction of everyone.

 

[stewie]

What I don't understand is why Cira doesn't want to make this matter clear and explain in detail. I think they owe us that.

 

[hugegrowth]

It would have been less headache for CIRA to just let the TBR stand.

There may have been some disgruntled bidders from the registrars that failed, but nothing like the storm brewing now.

We would all be disappointed if a registrar we used to bid in TBR failed completely one week, but it would be easier to take than this.

 

[CanSpace]

So it wasn't completely these registrars that screwed up, it was because of CIRA's instructions that may not have been clear.

Not saying I agree, just trying to see what they are claiming.

The baffling thing is I myself have gone over the documentation, and for the life of me I can't see what could have been unclear. It took me all of 2 minutes to adjust our scripts for this "new" EPP system and everything worked perfectly.

When they say 3-7 registrars, are these completely separate businesses not controlled by one main company, or are these all Pool related registrars? That's what I think a lot of people would like to know.

..

Something just doesn't seem right - I hope CIRA can further clarify what went on to the satisfaction of everyone.

Indeed. I've posed these same questions but have yet to get a response from CIRA at all. I suspect they are preparing a formal response before they respond to registrars (or anyone else) individually.

 

[theinvestor]

I find it interesting that everyone cares so much about this... or is it just dnforum that is making a fuss?

How about the fact that there are registrants out there that are not entitled to own .ca's yet somehow get a pass from CIRA?

Yet when they are reported...nothing happens. I don't mind for things to be transparent but why is the focus now only on TBR?

This isn't the only problem at CIRA...there are many issues that need to be dealt with..

 

[Namefox]

I find it interesting that everyone cares so much about this... or is it just dnforum that is making a fuss?

How about the fact that there are registrants out there that are not entitled to own .ca's yet somehow get a pass from CIRA?

Yet when they are reported...nothing happens. I don't mind for things to be transparent but why is the focus now only on TBR?

This isn't the only problem at CIRA...there are many issues that need to be dealt with..

I agree that there are many issues with CIRA over and above the recent changes, TBR issues, discrepancies in domain registration dates, etc...My statements have always been that something seems amiss at CIRA. I hope we can get the competition bureau and Industry Canada involved to investigate. Personally, I think (and I will say this publicly) there is some white collar crime happening.

 

[theinvestor]

Just to add but this whole EPP actually helped some registrants to regain control of their domains.

For those who are not aware there were many registrants putting fake emails in their whois information.

Since CIRA accounts were long usernames and passwords one could not remember, those who had provided these fake emails could not gain access through CIRA when they didn't save or remember their passwords.

Only through the registrar were they able to actually renew those domains, but transferring was not possible as they didn't physically have control.

Where am i going with this? Well.. when the new EPP system came out they now had control again. During this time no matter how much you tried to report to CIRA domainers who were in violation of using FAKE information... nothing was done. Now these people are protected by the registrar and of course the great privacy we have as Canadians.

 

[Wzhxvy]

Fun as it is to believe such things, I really don't think Wednesday was some small conspiracy part of a larger overall registrar/CIRA conspiracy which was ultimately part of an even larger global conspiracy to take over the world.

I'd be more than happy with a complete explanation for Wednesday.

Take over the world ? Did I say that ? Its clear your self interest in keeping the TBR results but you have no real interest in a serious evaluation of the flawed system.

---------- Post added at 09:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:29 PM ----------

Wzhxvy - why should Wednesday's drop have been reversed if according to CIRA nothing was technically wrong? The fault was with the registrar(s) and not the registry itself. We've all ordered domains at registrars who at one time or another failed to connect to the tbr system on a given week - never did CIRA run it again for them. The rules/regulations/requirements were clear and the majority of registrars got it right and had more than ample time to ensure they would before Wednesday.

If this was a technical issue with CIRA - that would not have been fair to the registrars, but that is not the case here. IMO Wednesday's TBR session was valid and CIRA should release the domains as they were so we can all move on.

Define majority ? If 40% of the registrars that regularly participated did not this week...would that cause CIRA to re-evaluate. How much of the market does Pool have ? 30% ? Do you have evidence it was just Pool who had the issues ? Why are people jumping to conclusions before having facts ?

---------- Post added at 09:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 PM ----------

Oh and one more thing, if you call yourself a registrar and I can not register a name easily on your site and for less than $12, your registrar rights should be revoked. TBR is the bone that CIRA throws to registrars to keep them afloat, but is it necessary at this point?? Namespro which is in my mind is the model for how a registrar should operate, treats TBR like a part time hobby...so they obviously do well with out it. Why doesnt CIRA run TBR, get the cash, and let only the true registrars survive....but oh no..no one wants to address the real issue. Now Pool is the cause of all the issues and they are somehow running CIRA because most of you didnt get names you bid on...enough of the hypocracy...I feel like I am standing in the middle of scalper fight on who can stand in which spot...

 

[urlurl]

Question: from your experience who (top 3) has the best sucess with drop catching .ca's?

 

[jaydub]

I believe the TBR could be probably handled more efficiently as well.


The point, I feel, is that if Pool (or any CIRA endorsed registrar) has the clout to have a TBR shut down because of inefficiencies/deficiencies that were their own fault , then that is something to be concerned about.

Now Pool is the cause of all the issues and they are somehow running CIRA because most of you didnt get names you bid on...enough of the hypocracy...I feel like I am standing in the middle of scalper fight on who can stand in which spot...

 

[msn]

I believe the TBR could be probably handled more efficiently as well.


The point, I feel, is that if Pool (or any CIRA endorsed registrar) has the clout to have a TBR shut down because of efficiencies/deficiencies that were their own fault , then that is something to be concerned about.

It is clear that Momentous is 'first amongst equals' with CIRA and each and every of the other .ca registrar partners should be pushing back as hard as possible to let this TBR stand, otherwise it can only get worse for them the next time Pool makes their 3:00 PM call to CIRA.

 

[Daem0n]

Why doesnt CIRA run TBR, get the cash, and let only the true registrars survive....but oh no..no one wants to address the real issue.

While I don't necessarily agree with some of your other arguments (with facts or not), I have to 100% agree with your above statement and that's what I've been saying all along. This is the biggest flaw in the system and it doesn't make any sense. If CIRA wants to make money, why wouldn't they run the auction or otherwise randomly release or sell expired names? There's a "closed" access system where equal rights are not extended to the end-user. I understand that outside of Canada other registrations run their domain expirations similarly but that doesn't mean it's the right idea.

I agree with someone else's comment with this being related to anti-competition laws. How can a commodity go from $10 to $60 automatically with no way to purchase it at a lower price (of course unless nobody wants it before it drops)? You also have to think about the average consumer who doesn't even understand this process or auctions - imagine how they feel when they accidentally let their domain expire. Yes a lot of you don't want them to know because we all make income from the lack of knowledge, but is that fair?

This has really been bothering me lately. The internet's already filled with grease-ball affiliate marketing and scams...we don't need another industry soiled by the internet. Let's clean this thing up before things get worse.

 

[Pool.com]

I will post one last entry in an attempt to simply focus on the facts, not conjecture, not innuendo, not blind accusation, not hunches, just the facts. I am here in this forum to discuss real issues and encourage all readers of this forum to focus on just that, real issues. Not fabrications or accusations that have no basis in fact. Not some continued tirade by somone who seems to have their own personal agenda.

The facts are very simple. A number of registrars were unable to access the tbr successfully on Wed Nov 24 and as a result CIRA made the difficult decision to cancel the tbr and reschedule to Dec 1st allowing all registrars to have equal access. If you don't think this was a difficult decision, you can be sure that CIRA would have predicted the BS response that is coming from some of you and I think they might instead have chosen the path of least resistance. Rather, they chose to implement the right decision and are now paying the price in public opinion. CIRA has publicly stated that more than one registrar was affected and they have further publicly stated that there were ambiguities in the information presented about tbr processing which they have since clarified by issuing a document that clearly defines the current tbr command requirements. I am confident that CIRA's statements and their justifcation for cancelling hold up to any scrutiny including investigation by Industry Canada and the Auditor Generals Office if need be. Neither CIRA nor I are hiding behind some forum alias and I certainly have posted previously that I welcome any investigation and any further discussion. I am more than willing to create the opportunity for the parties to sit at one table and review this whole scenario including Pool.com, CIRA and Industry Canada.

However, I refuse to continue this pissing context with flong101 who continues to hide behind the anonymity of his alias in this forum. I don't know who he is and for all I know he may be a disgruntled competitor of mine that clearly has no interest in seeing any decision that CIRA makes come to his disadvantage. There is no doubt in my mind that some registrars will regain equality as a result of the CIRA decision and possibly some will not perform as well on the Dec 1st drop. Pool certainly intends to do our best to resume our normal exceptional performance.

I remain open to discuss this issue with anyone that cares to have a legitimate conversation in facts and, as posted before can be reached directly by email ([email protected]) or by phone (613-221-1207). I will post this same response in the other thread in this forum as well.

 

[DomainsInc]

I haven't followed this thread but in my opinion, bottom line should be: if it was cira's fault that pool and others couldn't access the tbr, then resheduling is fair. if its the registrars own fault for not changing this or that, well they only have themselves to blame and the cards should allow to fall where they may.

 

[jaydub]

I don't think you have much to worry about Richard. As offended, and probably rightly so, as many here are, the bottomline is , nothing will be done by CIRA, Pool/Momentous or Industry Canada.
Your businesss won't be harmed at all because when a domain is wanted domainers will continue to place offers in the usual way to do what they feel they have to to acquire the domain, which will continue to include Pool/Momentous.

Unfortunately, this will all just blow over as soon as Pool/Momentous gets the name someone wants for them.

I hate being so pessimistic about something I feel really does deserve further investigation to give both sides of this the answers/clearance they are seeking, but nothing ever seems to come from these flare-ups.

Result...Business As Usual.

 

[hugegrowth]

Can anyone confirm if any of the affected registrars in last week's TBR are not affiliated in any way with Pool/Momentous?

That is all I'd really need to see to lay this to rest in my mind, and I think a lot of people feel the same way.

 

[Namefox]

I don't think you have much to worry about Richard. As offended, and probably rightly so, as many here are, the bottomline is , nothing will be done by CIRA, Pool/Momentous or Industry Canada.
Your businesss won't be harmed at all because when a domain is wanted domainers will continue to place offers in the usual way to do what they feel they have to to acquire the domain, which will continue to include Pool/Momentous.

Unfortunately, this will all just blow over as soon as Pool/Momentous gets the name someone wants for them.

I hate being so pessimistic about something I feel really does deserve further investigation to give both sides of this the answers/clearance they are seeking, but nothing ever seems to come from these flare-ups.

Result...Business As Usual.

Exactly...I don't think the real truth will come out personally.

 

[CanSpace]

The facts are very simple. A number of registrars were unable to access the tbr successfully on Wed Nov 24 and as a result CIRA made the difficult decision to cancel the tbr and reschedule to Dec 1st allowing all registrars to have equal access. If you don't think this was a difficult decision, you can be sure that CIRA would have predicted the BS response that is coming from some of you and I think they might instead have chosen the path of least resistance. Rather, they chose to implement the right decision and are now paying the price in public opinion. CIRA has publicly stated that more than one registrar was affected and they have further publicly stated that there were ambiguities in the information presented about tbr processing which they have since clarified by issuing a document that clearly defines the current tbr command requirements. I am confident that CIRA's statements and their justifcation for cancelling hold up to any scrutiny including investigation by Industry Canada and the Auditor Generals Office if need be. Neither CIRA nor I are hiding behind some forum alias and I certainly have posted previously that I welcome any investigation and any further discussion. I am more than willing to create the opportunity for the parties to sit at one table and review this whole scenario including Pool.com, CIRA and Industry Canada.

After scouring over the document CIRA sent, I honestly do NOT see what was clarified, and what was ambiguous to begin with. I've inquired with CIRA directly, and asked you to clarify (if you are aware of what it was), and bewilderingly, no one is willing to answer me.

Furthermore, CIRA claims that "about" 3-7 registrars were affected, but they "don't know" which ones because the data is encrypted. How in the world did they arrive at that number?

 

[Namefox]

I think they are sticking their collective heads in the sand.